Hooniverse Asks: What Brand Has the Biggest Amount of Model Overlap?

model_low_introduction
The other day I was looking over a press release from Toyota on an upcoming model when I realized that I had no idea of the scope of the Japanese brand’s current U.S. offerings. I mean, sure, I know there’s a Prius, and I see a lot of Camrys out there, but I couldn’t really picture another of their models off the top of my head. I figured that I should take a refresher and so I went to Toyota’s Web site. Holy cow are there a lot of Toyotas for sale!
It wasn’t so much the cars that surprised me, as Toyota doesn’t seem too interested in making those these days, but the SUVs. Oh my gosh, the SUVs! They have six distinct models and they all look to be within a few inches in size from one another. Does any marque need that many? I really don’t know if a 4Runner is sufficiently different from a Sequoia which itself seems pretty close to  aLand Cruiser to warrant them all being on the same lot, and that got me thinking about which brands are too generous with the narrow model distinctions. Hence today’s question: what brands do you think have the greatest amount of unnecessary model overlap?
Image: BMW.com

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39 responses to “Hooniverse Asks: What Brand Has the Biggest Amount of Model Overlap?”

  1.  Avatar
    Anonymous

    Hmmmm ….There seems to be a dearth of compelling content at Hooniverse these days. What happened?

    1. ptschett Avatar
      ptschett

      I blame Charles.

  2. PotbellyJoe★★★★★ Avatar
    PotbellyJoe★★★★★

    Toyota was terrible on this for a while.
    It was really hard on sales teams. The Rav4 was thankfully enough of it’s own thing, even when it got bigger because the Highlander was just better all around (despite less power at the time from the V6.)
    Where it got murky was the space for the Venza, more premium than the Highlander in driving, but only had 5 seats. The 4Runner could seat 7 like the Highlander, but was a truck platform so towing and off-road were great, but 90% of 4Runner buyers didn’t want that. They wanted the bullet-proof reliability of the model, as told to them by Consumer Reports. Then the FJ Cruiser came out. Just what we needed Toyota another mid-size Toyota SUV. So that stole some of the off-road crowd from the 4Runner.
    The Land Cruiser was always its own thing. For people who like them, they were amazing. The Sequoia was just Toyota’s attempt at capturing the Tahoe/Yukon market and also getting every real vowel in a model name (No, Ws and Ys do not count.)
    There was a time where the Land Cruiser couldn’t be ordered with curtain airbags and yes, this was actually a determining factor for may to buy the Sequoia Limited instead. This is how over-researched many Toyota Land Cruiser shoppers are. They came in to trade their LC in to get a Sequoia Limited because they wanted side curtain airbags.
    So the buyers went like this:
    Rav4 – A Camry buyer (same price) that doesn’t want a Camry because they want to be seen as fun
    Highlander – A Sienna buyer that wants to be seen as hip
    4Runner – His wife wanted a Highlander
    FJ Cruiser – He doesn’t have a wife
    Venza – The kids left for college and their neighbor has a Highlander
    Sequoia – A Sienna buyer than needed 7 usable seats but still, despite a $15k difference, couldn’t stomach the minivan
    Land Cruiser – No one accidentally buys one. They come in asking for it and know what they have to pay to get one. There is no overlap in this buyer’s mind with any other Toyota product despite similar seating and dimensions.
    This is obviously a gross oversimplification for the segmentation of these vehicles, but more often than not these were my experiences.

    1. LEROOOY Avatar
      LEROOOY

      And let’s not forget the Lexus/Toyota overlap, wherein many Lexii cost as much as a loaded Toyota.
      And then there’s Scion…

      1. PotbellyJoe★★★★★ Avatar
        PotbellyJoe★★★★★

        Scion didn’t overlap a ton, just for the Yaris vs xD but they were totally different buyers.
        Lexus had an interesting problem for a while with the RX and the Highlander as the Highlanders more square rear cargo area gave it the ability to have 7 seats and the rounder Lexus couldn’t. We sold more than a few Highlander limited 7-seaters because of that.
        The ES350 is a Camry, but with more kit in it. Honestly, I don’t know anyone who cross-shopped them. The other Lexus product functioned similarly, it was the same platform, but apart from the LX, the Lexus counterpart had substantive upgrades over the Toyota. The LX had basically one thing over the Land Cruiser, Xenon lights and a badge. It was $3-4000 more.

    2. theskitter Avatar

      I think this is part of Toyota’s success, as opposed to the BMW idea of trying to pigeonhole everyone into an exact status level. Yes, it’s easier for the salesman to say ‘We have one vehicle that matches your description, as you can see from the trim letters on the back.’ But I think the stand with Vanilla, Chocolate, Mint, Raspberry, Peanut, and Lemon flavors is going to have a much better chance than the stand that only has the lowest common Vanilla.

  3. Lokki Avatar
    Lokki

    You have answered your own question. BMW.
    The answer used to be GM but most of the redundanticies whithered and died. BMW should pay attention to that, but hubris bets you $20 that they won’t.
    To quote an old song:
    The very thing that made me rich will make me poor”. In the song they were talking about drugs, but diluting the essence of BMW by trying to become a car for every man at every price will ulimately kill them.

    1. neight428 Avatar
      neight428

      I could barely tell the difference at 50 paces between an Olds Intrigue and Olds Aurora of the same model year, and I was one of about three people that even cared enough to know that they were different. I think you have to divide by zero to figure out how many iterations of FWD V6 cars were made by GM around 2002.

    2. Rover 1 Avatar
      Rover 1

      What about Mercedes Benz?
      The full range isn’t marketed in the states but elsewhere in the world, it more than matches BMW model for model. There are the A and B classes and more than one size of sports cars as well as the vans, (not just the Sprinter), and all the trucks, from below Sprinter sized to bigger than Kenworths, and real 4wds not just SUVs, the G series and the Unimog.
      BMW has only just started making FWD hatchbacks and small vans.

  4. engineerd Avatar
    engineerd

    Toyota and BMW are getting ridiculous. I’m going to with Ford, though. When it comes to cars, it’s straightforward: Fiesta-Focus-Fusion-Taurus. However, the crossover/SUV lineup is confusing. It used to be easy: Escape-Explorer-Expedition-Excursion. However, now the Escape and Explorer are more crossover and the Excursion is gone. So now, it’s something like Escape-Edge-Explorer/Flex-Expedition.

    1. PotbellyJoe★★★★★ Avatar
      PotbellyJoe★★★★★

      Ahh, but here’s the fun part.
      The Flex is a car. That’s why it starts with an F. Fleet mileage restrictions made it better to call it a light-duty truck and so it is a crossover despite being the best Country Squire Ford has ever built.

      1. engineerd Avatar
        engineerd

        I agree, and you’re technically correct. However, because it does fall under the crossover designation area of Ford’s model lineup, it and the new crossover Explorer now fill basically the same role (7 passenger large crossover) just with a different look.

        1. PotbellyJoe★★★★★ Avatar
          PotbellyJoe★★★★★

          Yeah, they each have their advantages, though. I very nearly bought a Flex over my minivan. I don’t appreciate the ride height of the Explorer, especially since i have small kids getting in and out daily. The Flex was much better than a Explorer for that.
          Also, the Flex is alarmingly quiet on the road. Like Mercedes S-class quiet.
          What tipped it for the minivan was the convenience of the center-aisle and the Flex, Explorer and Transit Connect don’t offer that with 7-seats.

      2. theskitter Avatar

        That’s why they say/made sure it can’t tow anything despite 350hp! It all makes (the appropriate lack of) sense now!

        1. PotbellyJoe★★★★★ Avatar
          PotbellyJoe★★★★★

          I’m extremely critical of the towing capabilities of modern cars. Pick-ups have tripled their tow ratings in 20 years thanks to more power, better brakes and vehicle stability software. Meanwhile in many cases car tow ratings have gone down despite more power, better brakes and vehicle stability software.
          It doesn’t make sense.

          1. engineerd Avatar
            engineerd

            I think for cars it has more to do with more and more vehicles going to unibody construction. The vehicle structure just can’t take the stress and forces of towing without significant strengthening…which adds weight and negates the benefits of unibody. A perfect example of this is the Porsche Cayenne. It’s unibody, but has a 7700 lb tow capacity because they integrated a subframe system to strengthen the body structure for towing.

          2. PotbellyJoe★★★★★ Avatar
            PotbellyJoe★★★★★

            Perhaps. I would think with our emphasis on chassis and crash-worthiness the frames of the unibodies have also never been stronger.
            That being said, rigid structure is not always the best thing for these kinds of applications as you could have damage from sheering, etc.

          3. nanoop Avatar
            nanoop

            Oh man, poor engineers: first they pull all-nighters to shave off 50lbs from the body shell, then the customer checks options like glass roof, electric everything, and towing hitch…

          4. William Robinson Avatar
            William Robinson

            I think they have lowered the tow ratings on cars so people will buy suv’s and trucks. Even ten years ago mid and full size sedans had decent ratings I’m sure. Now people buy a truck and trailer to do the once a year home depot run.

    2. neight428 Avatar
      neight428

      Ford and Toyota are the most obviously long on the CUV/SUV trend. Give ’em what they want though…

    3. Vairship Avatar
      Vairship

      Throw in the CMax and Transit Connect! Or am I the only one who’s virtually-cross-shopping those?
      The CMax has a nicer, more expensive looking interior but has a depressed Eeyore look to it on the outside. The Transit Connect has a lower floor, a cheap interior but is more expensive on gas.

  5. Alff Avatar
    Alff

    Fiat. “What’s it going to take to put you in one of these blobs today?”

  6. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    Porsche.

    How variations of the same car can you make?

    1. nanoop Avatar
      nanoop

      Many! The evolutionary thing (engineering a base platform and evolve it for a decade or two) is one thing (the 968 still is a VW truck engine on a Beetle wheelbase, right?). At least their 911 nomenclature is somewhat based on technical properties, not just interior trim lines. (911 Carrera S 4 GL, yay!)

    2. salguod Avatar

      5 Boxters
      4 Caymans
      10 911s
      2 918s
      14 Panameras
      2 Macans
      7 Cayennes
      That’s 44 models. Wow.

  7. salguod Avatar

    Because I’ve got time to kill (and I’m evidently a glutton for punishment), I made a list of all the models offered on BMW’s web site.
    I bet you’d get a similar list at Mercedes. They’re both trying to stuff a model in every conceivable niche
    228i Coupe
    228i xDrive Coupe
    M235i Coupe
    M235i xDrive Coupe
    228i Convertible
    228i xDrive Convertible
    M235i Convertible
    M235i xDrive Convertible
    320i Sedan
    320i xDrive Sedan
    328i Sedan
    328i xDrive Sedan
    328d Sedan
    328d xDrive Sedan
    340i Sedan
    340i xDrive Sedan
    328i xDrive Sports Wagon
    328d xDrive Sports Wagon
    328i xDrive Gran Turismo
    335i xDrive Gran Turismo
    M3 Sedan
    428i Coupe
    428i xDrive Coupe
    435i Coupe
    435i xDrive Coupe
    428i Convertible
    428i xDrive Convertible
    435i Convertible
    435i xDrive Convertible
    428i Gran Coupe
    428i xDrive Gran Coupe
    435i Gran Coupe
    435i xDrive Gran Coupe
    M4 Coupe
    M4 Convertible
    528i Sedan
    528i xDrive Sedan
    535i Sedan
    535i xDrive Sedan
    535d Sedan
    535d xDrive Sedan
    550i Sedan
    550i xDrive Sedan
    ActiveHybrid 5
    535i Gran Turismo
    535i xDrive Gran Turismo
    550i xDrive Gran Turismo
    M5 Sedan
    640i Coupe
    640i xDrive Coupe
    650i Coupe
    650i xDrive Coupe
    640i Convertible
    640i xDrive Convertible
    650i Convertible
    650i xDrive Convertible
    640i Gran Coupe
    640i xDrive Gran Coupe
    650i Gran Coupe
    650i xDrive Gran Coupe
    Alpina B6 xDrive Gran Coupe
    M6 Coupe
    M6 Gran Coupe
    M6 Convertible
    740i Sedan
    750i xDrive Sedan
    Z4 sDrive28i
    Z4 sDrive35i
    Z4 sDrive35is
    X1 xDrive28i
    X3 sDrive28i
    X3 xDrive28i
    X3 xDrive28d
    X3 xDrive35i
    X4 xDrive28i
    X4 xDrive35i
    X5 sDrive35i
    X5 xDrive35i
    X5 xDrive35d
    X5 xDrive50i
    X5 M
    X6 sDrive35i
    X6 xDrive35i
    X6 xDrive50i
    X6 M
    BMW i3
    BMW i3 with Range Extender
    BMW i8

    1. Sjalabais Avatar
      Sjalabais

      I was going to do that with VW, which oddly hasn’t been named yet, but then my boy didn’t want to sleep last night and the agitation of looking at a kid screaming send me out on the water when he finally succumbed to sleep. Hello cod!
      Anyway, VW has everything under their umbrella, if not necessarily with the same nameplate. Through SEAT they have even started to recycle their stuff. Still…your list might top even that one.

      1. salguod Avatar

        I’m bored, I counted VW (and others, see my later comment).
        VW beats BMW 95 to 88.

        1. Dean Bigglesworth Avatar
          Dean Bigglesworth

          You can probably triple quintuple that number for Europe. There’s basically a diesel counterpart for every gas model you listed, plus a lot of models with smaller engines not sold in NA. And entire models not sold there, like most 1-series, the 2-series fwd minivan, all the small VWs + vans / trucks..
          I like to think of this “overlap” more in terms of model series though, not taking into account all the different engine sizes of the 3-series for example. just narrow it down to sedan / wagon. and coupe. and four-door coupe. and wagon on stilts. and lowered version of wagon on stilts. and..

  8. Rust-MyEnemy Avatar

    At least every new BMW looks slightly different from the last.
    I saw a new generation (I think) A4 the other day. It had a TFSI badge on the back. I have since determined that TFSI stands for
    “The Fucking Same, Innit?”.
    I’m planning to use that same joke several more times, both on here and elsewhere on the internet.

    1. nanoop Avatar
      nanoop

      It’s always satisfying to see a joke one sparked years ago coming back home.

      1. Rust-MyEnemy Avatar

        Recycling in action!

  9. Batshitbox Avatar
    Batshitbox

    Studebaker. Every time I try to keep my Commanders separate from my Champions and go ask one of the Studebaker Savanti (like that? I made it up) I know thay start rattling on about how the Hawk was really the back end of a Lark with the front end parts from a Champion but the Lark itself was leftover parts from the Scotsman and yadda yadda yadda… my head starts to hurt.
    Maybe not too much model overlap in one year, but they mixed and matched their sheet metal molds to create these pastiche cars in the ’50s. It can be very difficult to identify them in the wild.
    1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight Starliner
    http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/1953-1954-studebaker-commander-regal-starlight-starliner-1.jpg
    1954 Studebaker Champion
    http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1963/1661/29905830001_large.jpg

    1. I_Borgward Avatar
      I_Borgward

      I’ll take a 1954 Studebaker Commander Golden Starlight Champion Hawk Starliner. In red, please.

  10. Bradley Brownell Avatar
    Bradley Brownell

    Nissan.
    Juke, Rogue Select, Rogue, XTerra, Murano, Pathfinder, Armada.

  11. nanoop Avatar
    nanoop

    Thing get even worse when considering past lineups in parallel. Shopping for a “5-10yo sedan around 12kUSD” will bring out the question whether one could afford a 10yo slightly-better-class car instead of a 5yo slightly-lesser-class vehicle. And: what will my neighbors think?
    There is too much to choose from – stop catering niches, and make only one, perfect car for the people!
    Or, don’t.

  12. salguod Avatar

    Cue Styx “Too Much Time on My Hands”:
    Porsche – 44
    MB – 67
    BMW – 88
    Toyota – 92 (14 Prius variants and 10 Corollas!)
    VW – 95 (30 Golf variants & 18 Beetles!)

    1. Vairship Avatar
      Vairship

      Morgan – 6 models 😉