By Tim Odell
Over the weekend, UDMan pitted arch-rival Chevy and Ford pickups against one another, but it was more of a philosophical thing, what with no poll and all. It’s also roughly tied based on the comments. The last time we kept score, the Marlin turned the Barracuda to chum.
This time around, we’re looking at the ever-popular market segment of “roughly full size SUVs that are actually worth a damn offroad”. In short, something that’ll haul 4-5, their gear and the dog down a trail. Being able to tow the occasional project car is another plus. In case you’re not catching on, this one’s of personal significance in the _Science household.
On one hand, we’ve got the classic clean lines of the Brooks Stevens designed Jeep Wagoneer. The other brings back the 90s in a big way with less classic round lines from Toyota’s “lets make everything round” era.
The Wagoneer holds all kinds of records, most centered around the longest running use of something old, be it styling, chassis or carbureted AMC V8s. The upside to that is roughly 30 years of parts availability and drivetrain parts swappage. The downside (depending on how you look at it) is you’ve gotta explain to everyone that an AMC 360 is not the same as a Chrysler 360.
This one’s got a rebuilt engine, tranny and transfer case, 4″ lift and rear ARB air locker. The outside’s a bit rough, but perfectly appropriate for a trail machine. We’d ditch the purple tint, though. (Seriously, who likes that stuff?). The lack of interior shots is a bit disconcerting, but for the purposes of comparison, we’ll assume that given the $14,000 price tag that it’s damn-near perfect. At that price, it better be.
Many lament the soccer-mom-ification of Toyota’s venerable FJ platform with the FJ80 model. These people are ignorant. Locking diffs front and rear, a rear-steering high pinion front axle, full-floating rear axle, long-travel coil suspension, and 32″ tires read like a shopping list for the first $5 grand you’ve gotta spend on any other 4×4 (including an OG FJ40) before you hit the trails for real.
This one’s been treated to a mild lift, some armor, a winch and a sweet set of drawers in the back. Oh, and a supercharger. The forest green paint (again with the 90s stuff) and black tint look great. In this case, the interior shots justify the price, as you’ll be cruising in comfort and style well past the decline of modern civilization…provided you can stay on top of the quarter mile of vacuum tubing in the engine bay.
The bidding’s currently just shy of $12 grand, but the seller’s revealed the reserve is set at $14k.
We’ve got a definite $14k FJ versus a they-better-be-talking-OBO $14k Wagoneer. It’s likely that the semi-near future will see the roles of the Mad_Science Country Sedan and Wrangler rolled into one, most likely one of these two options. I’ve got my own favorite, but how would you rather hit the trail?
[poll id=”21″]
Kamil Kaluski
For the same money, I have to choose the Toyota. They're more capable than people think off road. Of course, for $14 large, I would realistically buy a Cherokee Sport or Classic and have some mild mods done… and still have enough cash left over for a small trip to Vegas.
Yeah, Wagoneers are rad because you can find great examples for under $3k.
For $11k, I could do a hell of a lot more than a small lift, 33"s, and a rear ARB. For example, buy a digital camera and take pictures of the inside of the car.
Assuming the Waggy would be the crowd favorite as a default, I intentionally set it up to be a tough choice over the FJ for the same money.
If your gonna spend more than $5K for a waggon…go here instead!http://www.grandwagoneer.com/
Well if somebody would show me the way to insert a poll, then there would have been a vote over the weekend………… 🙂
Somebody feeling unloved? 🙁
Crap…I think our addition of that plugin predates your arrival. No worries, man.
I voted Toyota. That would suit my needs nicely and I think my wife would go for it as well.
I voted Jeep and then realized that was the wrong vote. Wagoneers have metric assloads of panache, but I'm not sure that's a $14k truck. I'd rather find one that's stock and equally ratty for about ten grand less, or stretch the extra ten grand for the Wagoneers.com example. Mind you, I sway FJ60 over the 80, but I certainly wouldn't kick this one out of bed.
I voted for the Jeep. Buy American!
Well, that and I love them more than the 'yota. The price is a big issue for me. I'm wondering if this is a case of someone trying to recoup their investment and not realizing that vehicles depreciate.
Emailed the Wagoneer seller, just to see if he's got more info to help his case.
Daily driver? Fuel injection wins the day. At least here in the land of "-25°C on Monday, +25°C on Wednesday."
That said, at $14k, there is only one answer for me:
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-SUVs-tru…
Pajero roughly translates to "wanker" in Spanish.
Mucho Gusto?
I'll live with the connotation, as the reason I need one is to haul 3 kids around.
I vote Toyota. The Jeep is overpriced given the shape it's in, and the FJ80 is from an era when Toyota still had some soul. And a supercharger to boot? Hai!
Toyota. It just seems like a better buy for fourteen large.
Also, the purple tint you speak of didn't come that way. In the mid-90's, a lot of tint-shops decided to buy this cheap Sun Gard knockoff. That tint turned that black-light purple after a few years and the glue used made the tint nearly impossible to remove. To get that off, you would need a dozen razors, a gallon of soapy water, patience and about a half-day.
/Son of a window tinter. That was my summer job for oh so many summers.
The only boy/that could ever reach me/was the son of a window tinter!
And he was/he was/he waaaaassssss…..
The Jeep was ancient by 1984, and you could feel every day of its elderly age when you drove it. Plush luxo-features none-too-solidly glued onto a rattly and not very well built old truck. The only advantage to owning one is ease of parts and service. This one is way too much money – for the bucks, I'd take the bank-vault-quality and almost-unbreakable Land Cruiser.
They're both too expensive.
Gotta say the Toyota. For 14K the Wagoneer is WAY, WAY over priced plus the Yota has a far nicer interior. The vacum lines on the Yota are pretty easy to do, go buy a good size roll, then spend an hour or two per every once and a while and you'll be done in no time with limited cursing and less hair pulled out.
J.E.E.P. = Junk Each and Every Part
I kidd. But seriously who in their right mind would pay $14k for THAT Wagoneer?
There are a dozen currently listed on Ebay with low miles and half that price.
FJ-anything > Jeep. Sorry, but Toyota figured out what Jeep was doing, and kicked their ass at it. The FJ40 can wax a CJ's ass, and the FJ55 and up Land Cruisers are so far superior to Wagoneers and Grand Cherokees, it's not even fair to make a comparison. Like Maymar, I'd take a '60 over this '80, but Land Cruiser wins this one hands down.
14K for that Wagoneer is stupid money. You can pick up something in that condition on IFSJA.org for 4-5K or less very easily. Honestly, there is no comparison between these two vehicles. The Wagoneer is the original SUV…or at least defined what an SUV is and is built with real steel using serious axles, t-case, transmission and motor. Jeep for me, hands down! Just because I own one does make me a little bias 😀
No question that the Wagoneer is rugged. It also may have been the original SUV (Land Rover station wagon, anyone?), but the Toyota is no newbie. The Jeep-type Land Cruiser had been in production since 1953, and the wagon was introduced in 1967. The Land Cruiser wagon developed its rep in places like remote Asia, Australia, South America, the Middle East, and Africa under the harshest conditions. The Jeep is tough but the Land Cruiser is at least as tough, and it's had the benefit of Toyota build quality.
It's funny, I'm in the process of moving from sunny California to the mountains of central Oregon and I'm eyeing inexpensive SUVs for snow-fun. Right now I'm leaning toward a 2000-ish Jeep Grand Cherokee or any Land Cruiser. I spent a week with a Grand Cherokee in Hawaii, the big island, and put it through some pretty rough stuff. It was a pleasure to drive and seemed like it could tackle anything. The Land Cruiser is legendary and seems more reliable. What do people think?
Generally, the Toyotas are better built, but more expensive (and in the case of an FJ80, more difficult) to fix. Stay away from neglected Toyotas, as they'll be an endless money pit to get back up to the shape they should be in.
Jeeps are sort of the inverse. Lots of stuff breaks, but the parts are cheap and the work is easy.
Most of the JF80 Land Cruisers for sale in Oregon have 175k-plus miles on them and are priced around $8,000. There are a million 2000-ish Jeep Grand Cherokees with 100k or less, 4.0 straight six or V8, for around $6,000. Because I don't commute, the Jeep seems like a much better deal. Reliability? I took an older quadra-trac V8 Grand Cherokee, a '96-ish model, from SF all the way to San Felipe, Mexico and back. In July. 125-degree desert. No problems. Gulped gas, sure, but it was a great SUV.
Of course now that Jeep is in total shambles. At one point it needed an engine rebuild. Then a transmission rebuild. Now only one of the power accessories work—the driver's side window.
If you look closely, hidden behind the bright grille frame is the sheetmetal for the original tombstone-grille 1963 Wagoneer, complete with round openings inside of the headlights. This persisted to the end of production in 1992.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/12/2009/10/…
Wow, I never realized that. Ridiculous. As for myself, I was always partial to the J-10 pickups. I'd like to build one with all the luxury bits from Grand Wagoneer.
Is that the best wagoneer example you could find? The price and overall shape of it forced me to pick the Yota- which isnt exactly a bad thing, but given the legendary competition, it would typically lose out.
Ideally this would be a contest between a nicer $5000 wagoneer of a few years later with the better grille, and a Toyota of the same vintage, both equally appointed for the trail… And THEN I'd pick the Wagoneer, hah!