It was revealed this week that Fiat el queso grande, Sergio Marchionne had sent a mash note to his counterpart at GM, Mary Barra, suggesting that the two mega-corporations should hook up. Barra replied with the expected “eew, gross” and we all had a good laugh.
A merger of such titans is not what the auto industry needs, but the question remains, what was Marchionne thinking? Are things at the Italian auto maker really that dire – any more than, say usual? Or, did the bean counters finally get a look at Chrysler’s long term P&L? Maybe he thought Barra was asking for it?
Whatever the impetus, the advance was rebuffed and it looks like Fiat and its Chrysler minion will just have to go it alone. The thing of it is, there’s questions as to whether or not the conglomerate can do so profitably, what with its massive and in places out of date production infrastructure and onerous long-term debt weighing it down here in the States. The question isn’t really if one or more of the brands will go, but when and which one? What do you think the future holds for our favorite automotive odd couple? Which one do you think – Fiat or Chrysler – will be the first to exit the U.S. market?
Image: autoexplora
Hooniverse Asks: Which Will be First to go from the U.S. Market, Chrysler or Fiat?
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Even if we’re exclusively talking about Chrysler as a brand, it’s still in a stronger position to remain in the American market than Fiat, being closer in line with what typically sells (mid-sized cars and up), and less tainted by “Fix It Again Tony”itis.
Now, if we make it Chrysler Corporation, even as a vaguely nebulous entity, well, Ram and Jeep aren’t going anywhere. -
Chrysler. Specifically, Chryco cars. I think Ram trucks and Jeep are more likely to continue, at least as a brand.
I’m envisioning a new future where Ram and Jeep are passed off to the next owner and a new lineup of vehicles totally unrelated to the last lineup emerges. Who is in the best position to buy them and make something of the existing brand cachet?
Nissan, maybe? That’d just be Renault ownership, round 2.-
I was thinking along the same lines. The unfortunate orphans would be the cool but commercially abysmal Viper along with the Charger/300 and Challenger siblings as I don’t see them finding a home in the marketplace. Everything else (a whopping 3 models, now that I think of it [edit: I thought Durango was already dead and forgot completely about the Journey]) Chrysler and Dodge branded could disappear tomorrow and no one would notice.
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I thought chrysler sales were strong and had been for a while. Is that not correct?
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The better question might be “Is that not permanent?”
And the answer is no, because that’s not Chryco’s bag, baby.
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Brand-wise, between these two, Fiat. The attempt to make it Italian Mini isn’t working, but Chrysler has a fairly decent market presence and it sells in categories Americans actually buy.
Though actually the brand I think is most likely to leave is Dodge. They keep losing product, even stuff that sells well – Grand Caravan is gone after the next minivan update, I think the Durango is being quietly put down after the new Wagoneer is launched, all the trucks were rebranded as Ram – they don’t really have a brand identity and what little product they do get is easy to transfer to Chrysler.-
“Though actually the brand I think is most likely to leave is Dodge.”
While this is very wrong, you are probably correct. -
The brand ID seems to be
Dodge: affordable/sporty (kind of what Pontiac wanted to be)
Chrysler: affordable/mainstream trending toward deluxe (covering what the old Chrysler/Plymouth combined stores did)
Jeep: SUVs
Ram: pickups, commercial vehicles
Consolidating all the minivan sales to the Chrysler could get them the ability to claim best-selling minivan model again; I’ll bet the Wagoneer has more profit margin than a Durango.-
Some of the moves make some sense, sure, but the Dodge division is starved for product, and pretty much everything they do sell they’re at a risk of losing. Hell, they even took the Viper away for a couple years to sell it as an SRT instead. For whatever reason, Dodge is being treated as a brand FCA wants to discard.
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This is the part that never made sense to me: Dodge used to be affordable & sporty, therefore the pickup trucks & SUVs should have remained part of Dodge.
Ram is simply extra branding cost with no real payoff, everyone still refers to it as Dodge Ram instead of Ram 1500/2500/etc..
Chrysler can’t be upmarket and affordable at the same time, so Dodge should have been the one to replace Plymouth, not Chrysler (i.e. PT Cruiser would have made more sense as a Dodge than as a Chrysler).
SRT similar to Ram is too small to be a separate brand, it should be a part of Dodge.
Lancia-based models should be Chryslers, Alfa Romeo and Fiat-based models should be Dodges as neither Fiat nor Alfa Romeo will ever attain the volume to be viable as stand-alone brands in the US.
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I feel like this is a matter of pride on both sides. FIAT is not going to axe their own brand just after re-entering the US market without a decent fight. That includes from the dealers who just built new buildings, or at least renovated their old buildings for the new (to them) brand. Hummer did that to legacy Cadillac dealers who took on the Hummer brand at the H2 launch. By 2006 they were supposed to have a specific dealership for the Hummer brand and “lifestyle products” then the brand got cut in the restructure and those dealers were PISSED. NADA that year had some wonderful things to say about that and the downsizing of the MOPAR shops that also seemed to be highly political.
Anyway…
It’s an interesting situation because some of the Chrysler products could wear a Dodge badge without causing too much of a stir. The 200 would need a facelift to wear the cross-hairs and it hopefully would be executed intelligently, but this is FIAT-Chrysler, so who knows. The 300 would be gone. That would be the real shame. They would have to build a Luxury side of Dodge to handle that and well, that just wouldn’t work.
On the other hand, every Fiat could where a Chrysler or Dodge badge and it may be a little off, but it could still sell. Make the 500 into the Dodge Hornet that we were told we would be getting over a decade ago…
http://preview.netcarshow.com/Dodge-Hornet_Concept-2006-hd.jpg
It would work.-
Considering that last month’s (June 2015) Fiat unit sales were down 1/3 from a year earlier, I think that the Fiat brand’s days may be numbered—pride or no pride, fight or no fight.
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Bad question. Fiat was already first to go. They were enticed back with the gift of a free dealer network, in exchange for bringing the small, $17,000 cars that America so desperately wants to buy instead of profitable $40,000 hemi powered trucks, Jeeps, and Bentley wanna-bes that are so hard to sell.
I probably see three SRTs on the road for each Fiat I come across, but maybe that’s just because I pay attention to the SRTs. -
1) Fiat will be the first to leave, if they do.
but
2) I think what Marchionne was really trying to get at was the sharing of certain components. No one cares anymore who built the engine or the transmission. The automakers can share those parts for mass market vehicles and it won’t matter. Probably a very good way to reduce development costs and improve quality.-
The trouble is that they are already saddled with previous joint ventures/shared platforms which they don’t/can’t control.The only platform they own and control development of, is the Guiletta/200/Cherokee.
The new Alfas will be stand alone, not what GM, VW/Audi or Toyota/Lexus would do.
The Fiat 500/Ford Ka
Challenger & 300 /MercedesBenz
Gran Cherokee/ Mercedes Benz
Ram & Fiat vans/ PSA and others (Who will be first to rebadge their Ram Van as a Citroen?)
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Which will go first? The misguided vanity project or the scrappy underdog that gets sympathy dates every decade or so?
Fiat had a chance. A small one, but they blew it. A steady cadence of Mini and Miata clones with a unique flavor and identity would have put them on the map. Follow it up with a Focus, including a Focus ST clone and it would have been sustainable. That ship has sailed. They’re done. It’s over Johnny.
Chrysler and its brands are far from a lost cause. Because ‘Murrica. It almost doesn’t matter if they stay with separate brands. Personally I’d recommend keeping Chrysler around with a more luxury version of most platforms. A case could be made for Chrysler Charger, Chrysler Challenger, Chrysler Dart, etc but I’d keep at least a 2 tier system.
Big picture though, they have to develop a cohesive identity. A family where the members support each other. Audi shines a halo over VW. Alfa will never do that for Fiat. At least not here in the states. How they’re even related to Mopar is beyond me. The whole thing is like an old car that would be worth $5000 after you put $10,000 into it. Trim it back to Chrysler, Dodge (including Ram) and Jeep. They make sense that way. A buyer aspires to a Dodge truck for work, a Chrysler to take the wife and kids on vacation and little Jr. wants a Jeep to play with his/her friends in. The Challenger is the mid-life crisis dream. If you want a quirky Mini/Miata clone, a Dodge Swinger is as good as a Fiat 500. -
Fiat’s re-launch with only the 500 for a few years looked and felt a lot like Smart cars pretending to be an actual brand. The brand’s baggage was placed on to a car whose styling was evocative of a past model that the American public was basically completely unaware of. “So you want me to buy this thing that looks like an armless hermit crab that’s going to break every month, and you want me to pay more than I would for a Civic? Whatever Sergio.”
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Eh, I think there’s definitely a market for the 500, just a small one. I think anyone who wants a 500 wouldn’t even consider a Civic – bigger, more boring looking. The 500 is perfect for the person who doesn’t want to stretch their payments to a Mini. And, as much as people are perturbed by how Mini expanded their lineup to less mini cars, it demonstrates how to successfully expand that sort of brand.
Of course, leading with the ugly 500L may not have been the best next move, so hopefully the 500X will fare better.-
It’s very subjective, of course, but while it is less boring looking than a Civic, not many are going to think that it is better looking than a Civic. I guess I was trying to ay that as I see it, the unique styling is about all it has going for it, and it’s far from universally appealing.
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Fiat. No one will miss it. I see way too many Caravans, 300s, RAMs, Jeeps, and, yes, even Durangos to think ChryCo doesn’t have a place in this market.
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