By Robert Emslie
We live in a universe with – if you believe reality – three physical dimensions. Oh sure there’s like a gajillion other dimensions as Stargate SG1 long ago proved, but for our purposes today we’re just going to concentrate on the three that are easiest to comprehend- length, height, and roundth width. In the world of car design these three dimensions play a crucial role, as they also do in the apparently sadistic job of designing frustratingly small parking spaces.
The thing of it is, car designers years ago came up with a solution to making cars roomy inside while keeping their outer dimensions reasonably compact. No, it wasn’t by calling up Dr. Who and gleaning from him the secrets of the Tardis. It was instead, by raising the roof whilst discreetly shaking their booty. Tall cars such as the Honda City or the Ford Festiva gained the nickname phone booths over here because of their tallness to wideness and longness ratio, as well as due to the fact that phone booths actually existed back then.
But a funny thing happened since the glory days of tall cars in the ’80s, and that is that cars have been getting progressively lower and longer as though unable to withstand gravity’s pull over time. And while they have, roads have been getting more crowded, and those damn parking spaces have gotten smaller! The most anti-tall car in my book is the Chrysler 300 which maintains a gunslit greenhouse to go along with its gangster vibe. Gangsters don’t drive tall cars apparently, and what I’m interested in today is whether or not you just might. What do you think, are the advantages of tall cars – more room inside, less on the out – advantage enough to yearn for their return? Or, are you happy with the current crop of low riders and are satisfied with taking up two spaces?
Image source: FlipaCars
Jeff Glucker
Not if they look like this:
<img src="http://theblondeside.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/IMG_0631.jpeg" width=550>
The anti-300 was the FiveHundred. Tall greenhouse with high seats. As the "boomers" age, getting in and out of low cars is a problem. This was Ford's stab at selling cars to people who would otherwise buy an SUV.
<img src="http://stblogs.automotive.com/files/2011/07/2007-Ford-Five-Hundred-side-1024×640.jpg" width="450">
Lately Ford has been hitting homeruns- the FiveHundred was not one of them.
Or as the techs call them, "Flop Hundreds". Basically, a Volvo S60.
I really like the look of the 500. Can't comment on the reliability or quality.
I would, no word of a lie, drive a 500-based Taurus. Same roomy interior, great visibility, and sweet engine note; better transaxle… the chrome grille on those is gaudy, but I could live with it.
How hard would it be to swap back to the Five Hundred's more sedate grille anyhow?
Also, should I find myself suddenly in need of car seat room, I'd be perfectly content to find a $6-8k Freestyle/Taurus X.
I've recently been seeing one of the sixth gen taurii driving around here (seriously!).
My first re-reaction was 'wow, they are still seriously immense'. Secondly, I felt genuine pity for Ford, because they are still (apparently) trying to sell those to people.
(I don't know how common they are anywhere else, but they're just amazingly rare around here)
Hell yes!
Technically we have "tall cars" now, but they go by the moniker "crossover Utility Vehicle" or like BS. Give us a taller "station wagon" & mosy people will be all set.
I kinda understand why the manufacturers do this; it's to meet fuel economy by reducing a car's drag.
But on the other hand, windshields keep getting larger and larger, and thus, will cost more to replace for variopus reason (more glass, bigger part, two guys instead of one to replace it, ect.)
The "taller station wagon" is called the "minivan". They sell very strongly in their market segment, even though they're mostly despised by the Hooniverse demographic.
Minivans aren't so "mini" any more.
Minivans aren't bad. I have a soft spot for the GM minivans of the early 90's, and owned a '91 Oldsmobile Shilouette for four years as my first car. I miss it.
I'm strongly considering a minivan with a midengine design as a drunk wagon/race van.
That or Dajiban.
I don't despise minivans. Quite the opposite: I would love to own a 89 Caravan with a turbo. A Ram Van would be even better, with a 5-speed.
My "dream WTF" car would be a GM Dustbuster minivan with a Northstar V8 (still FWD) and a 6-speed stick. Leave the exterior stock & viola! Ultimate Sleeper!
I could get behind that.
I'm torn – the Northstar is an impressive engine, and I dig it. But then the Dustbuster vans are already set up to take the 3800 Supercharged (having already carried the naturally aspirated version), which is more reliable and capable of some very reasonable PAH!
Plus, the supercharger whine would fit the hooveriffic looks.
I've considered an AWD Astro with larger tires and possibly an LS swap as a project.
Hint: Syclone/Typhoon front axles don't interchange with the Bravada. Instead, they share part numbers with the AWD Astro vans. If you wanted to make a Syclone van, that would be one step already checked off the list.
I seem to remember when the SyTy's came out hearing that the entire AWD system was lifted from the Astro.
i've got a 2000 Rwd astro that is needs to leave me. The body isn't perfect; but wouldn't take too much to fix; I just don't have any money to do it, or the suspension on front end, and it burns oil, so new engine, new front end sounds like it'd be something you are looking to do anyways….
Thanks for the thought, but I've got to many other things to wrap up before moving to something new.
(I must, I must…)
can you put a 1970cb750 in a dodge caravan. (upright) OR any body us a minivan as a middle wight motorcycle hauler?
Apparently not
Minivans are something that you just don't get until you try one. My first gen MPV is great and I wouldn't mind one of those new stingy bastard edition Caravans with the Pentastar engine and 8-speed.
I don't know. To me, cars have gotten taller. It's just that the window sill line has gone up more than the roof of the car. The roof line seems to be taller on the average sedan than it used to be. The seats are higher and more upright, but the window openings are smaller, by government design.
But to answer the question, no. Truly tall cars, defined by a higher center of gravity, should go away. I don't like those very much. But that's just me.
I drive a K5. I have literally been sitting on both lines in a parking spot before. There's a section of the parking lot at work that I don't even bother looking for a spot in because they're all too small. Damn smaller parking spots grumble grumble grumble.
But onto the question- I could take 'em or leave 'em. I don't particularly like the tall car look, but I really don't like the crossover look. And any new tall car would probably still look huge and bloated, because Americans like their cars to remind them of themselves. So, meh.
Sawzall solution.
<img src="http://wolferadio11.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/giant_in_small_car_01.jpg"width="500"/>
That's Marcin Gortat, pretty funny Polish basketball player, and he's sitting in Kamil's next car purchase.
Awesome guillotine!
nice but extremely dangerous!! <img src="http://2.s05.flagcounter.com/count/1Jx/bg=FFFFFF/txt=FCFCFC/border=FFFFFF/columns=1/maxflags=1/viewers=3/labels=0/";;;; alt="Free counters!" width="1" height="1" border="0" /> <img src="http://2.s03.flagcounter.com/count/tcRC/bg=FFFFFF/txt=FCFCFC/border=FFFFFF/columns=1/maxflags=1/viewers=Visitors/labels=1/";;;; width="1" height="1" border="0" />
Totally. Tall cars are / should be the logical best way to package. When Ford came up with their Model-U concept car (intended as a spiritual successor to the Model T) a few years back, it resembled an SUV more than it did a conventional sedan. The reason wasn't merely a marketing thing, but that the T became such a multi-role vehicle an SUV was a realistic moden comparison.
Being six foot five tall I'm all about cars that are easy to get in and out of, and relish the airiness afforded by such designs. Unfortunately the only non-SUV to offer height as an attribute was the Renault Vel Satis, which I loved.
Consequently they sold bugger all of them.
Should tall cars return? Seriously? I don't mean to be pedantic, but what do you think an SUV or CUV is? It's the golden age of tall cars nowadays. From my European perspective cars have never been taller than what they are today. Even among 'regular' cars, cars have become taller, and this trend started many years ago.
Take this mk1 Yaris. My grandfather (1925) has one of these. It's a tall car. Taller than the Starlet it replaced.
<img src="http://www.allcarpictures.com/pictures/toyota/yaris-2003-2005/toyota-yaris-2003-2005002.jpg " width="600">
Or this, the Nissan Qashqai. In 2007 it replaced the Nissan Almera, which was a regular hatch/sedan.
<img src="http://robson.m3rlin.org/cars/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/nissan-qashqai-2007-1.jpg" width="600">
I like to think that automotive design is cyclical. You have the usual bubble vs box cycle, and I think with the SUV/CUV we're going back to the overall shape/proportion that was popular before WW2.
Completely true, this. The original Focus replaced the Contour/Mystique (gen-1 Mondeo) as well as the Escort here… I remember, when I was a kid, my mother parking her '95 Contour beside one of the first Focus sedans. The Focus was a good few inches taller despite being shorter in length. It's almost impossible to find a small car that doesn't subscribe to that today – basically every subcompact does, for instance, with the Honda Fit/Jazz and Suzuki SX/4 (and whatever Fiat rebadged it as) being two prominent examples.
I know what this guy's answer is to the question.
<img src="http://www.cathnewsusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/popemobil_mai_2007.jpg" width=500>
And now no one is riding in one.
Hell yes! Sick all these pancake drawn out rounded shit boxes and crossover crap…gimme a 91 Civic wagon please
Yes. As dull as the previous-gen Nissan Versa (or Tiida, depending on where you are) hatchback, it was incredibly roomy inside. A six foot + passenger could sit behind a six foot + person in the front seat.
That City Turbo II with Mugen wheels almost made me need to change my pants…
Very interesting wheels. They look like the designer was drawing inspiration from fan clutches.
That's exactly what I was thinking! Don't lay them flat, as the viscous fluid might leak out.
<img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1sxj-ul5mLo/UOIwK2RY1mI/AAAAAAAADjY/bgMfda6ycFo/s1095/12+-+1">
As a tall person, the tallness of my tall car is the only thing I like about it.
Learn how to resize photos, n00b!
"WIDTH=600"
I realized this right after posting, yet see no option to edit comment. I have brought shame upon my house.
Until a comment receives a reply, editing is possible when posting from an IntenseDebate account. It's a good reason to set up such an account even if, for some unfathomable reason, one is not interested in accumulating precious, precious points.
I'll forgive you if you send that sweet Cressida wagon my way. 😉
<img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PweJU2H4Myg/USgKs8U3oaI/AAAAAAAAD80/DFgrwYCJ44k/s821/13+-+1" width="600">
Nay! this is MY Cressida!
Get off my lawn!
Screaming chicken on a Chevy? BLASPHEMY!
*(Actually, I don't care. And for the record, I hate the screaming chicken even when applied to Pontiacs)
They still are around overhere in Brazil.
The Chevrolet Agile
<img src="http://www.blogauto.com.br/wp-content/2012/11/Chevrolet-Agile-Easytronic.jpg" width="600">
Fiat Idea
<img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_d10kIa8l6so/S5KNNh-ArdI/AAAAAAAADVU/7NJ1LyH1MoQ/s640/Nova Fiat Idea 2011 F.jpg" width="600">
VW Fox
<img src="http://carplace.virgula.uol.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/vw-fox-bluemotion-01.jpg" width="600">
Citroen C3 Picasso
<img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_d10kIa8l6so/S2QCTzDQmnI/AAAAAAAADRk/wJ2-LBPYrys/s640/C3%20Pi%20preto.jpg" width="600">
And don't forget the Qubo/Nemo Multispace/Bipper Tepee.
<img src="http://www.telfordmotors.co.uk/upload/images/featured/118.jpg">
At some point, a group of people got into a room together, had a heated discussion, and finally emerged to say that the best possible name for their small van thing was the Bipper Tepee, and they weren't hauled away to the nearest home for the mentally disturbed.
They were speaking in French.
We actually don´t have that Bipper Tepee thing here, instead we got the Partner, what can I say, live with it.
<img src="http://www.automotorweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Peugeot-Partner-Patagonica-2013.jpeg">
I also forgot the Fiat Doblo
<img src="http://www.temastop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/fiat-doblo-verde.jpg" width="600">
I finally understand what Dodge was trying to do with the Caliber.
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Dodge_Caliber_–_09-07-2009.jpg/640px-Dodge_Caliber_–_09-07-2009.jpg" width="500"/>
Should they return? They already have. Lots of smaller cars are way taller than they used to be in previous generations. I was in traffic next to a Chevy Spark last week and noted it was about as tall as a minivan next to it.
When did they go away?? Seriously, go look at a Nissan Sentra or Fiat 500. They are taller than my Volvo. The only thing that has changed from the 80's is that the window lines went up. They used to go down about halfway down your bicep, and now they're at your shoulder level.
And like looking through a mail slot.
The reason why beltlines have gone up is to make room for bigger wheels. See Camero
Not to mention the Camaro.
I think the beltline just went up and the wheel openings had to get bigger in order to remain proportional and that created the need for the huge wheels. Notice the appearance of the dark gray plastic panels at the bottom of every car to make them look shorter and slimmer.
The old Audi 100 made 14" wheels look huge because it was so low otherwise.
another reason im sure is to make them safer.
The Ford C-Max was introduced in Europe as a tall Focus. Seems like it would fit this bill…
Been driving my Scion xA for 6 years now. Reliable and nimble as all get out, but I'm squeezing 40MPG out of it. Great underrated car 🙂
My mother drives a 1st gen SRX. It isn't a SUV, it is just a tall CTS station wagon.
<img src="http://flipacars.com/pics/Cadillac/cadillac-srx-05.jpg"width=500">
Had one for a rental car. I was very pleasantly surprised with it.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/Tekka_Maki/21fe_3.jpg" width=550>
<img src="http://images.passionperformance.ca/photos/1/1/11018_2009_Kia_Rondo.jpg" width=550>
No?
Respect the Rondo.
http://hooniverse.info/2010/12/06/requiem-for-a-ro…
http://hooniverse.info/2011/09/24/hooniverse-do-yo…
http://hooniverse.info/2012/02/15/space-wagon-wedn…
I just helped my mother-in-law buy a Rondo – it's virtually perfect for her, being one of the cheapest cars on the market with a V6, lets her (at 4'11) sit up a little higher, and has room for dogs.
The next-gen might be worth looking at though, handsome little thing, and apparently available with a manual.
Top Gear did an episode on this subject a few seasons back. If the question really is whether a high-roof version of a similar car should be made, their answer was no. Of course, since then I am starting to see the Focus C-Max around Seattle. I've seen two this week.
Wait, tall cars need to make a comeback? Does that mean that they discontinued the X6M and I didn't realize it?
If so, the answer is "yes."
<img src="http://pic.feelcars.com/public/31122/BMW-X6_M_2010_008_240679_m.jpg">
X6M – Yes
5 and 3 Series GT – not so much
<img src="http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/bmw-5-series-gt-3.jpg" width="450">
<img src="http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/bmw-3-series-gt-leak-3_1035.jpg" width="450">
I have only one answer for that abominable trunklid arrangement on the top photo.
<img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/b7fn2q.jpg" width="500"/>
Haha! I hadn't seen a picture of one of those GT things with the trunklid open. Quite comical. Looks pretty useless for it's being a Grand Tourer.
I'm amazed at what fits into my wife's Fit, thanks to the distance between the floor and the roof.
They should have given it a name that reflects that.
I miss this:
<img src="http://www.motorstown.com/images/nissan-stanza-wagon-04.jpg" width="600/">
and this:
<img src="http://gomotors.net/pics/Nissan/nissan-axxess-02.jpg" width="600/">
Slidy doors FTW.
and this:
<img src="http://www.jeff-young-design.com/WorldWideWagons/Images/1991-Toyota-All-Trac-Wagon.jpg" width="600/">
and especially this:
<img src="http://img2.netcarshow.com/Honda-Civic_Wagon_1988_800x600_wallpaper_01.jpg"width=600>
At least we have the Mazda5 and the Honda Fit.
I wonder if it would be possible to implement the Prairie's party piece with current side impact regulations.
<img src="http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x58/Spottedlaurel/Brochure%20Scans/PrairieM10Brch_1.jpg" width="500">
There are still a surprising number kicking around my town though.
I'm astounded at how many clapped out Previas I see in the Houston area. More than there were when it was new, I think. I knew someone who totaled his at 325,000 miles.
Yes! Here's the Ford B-Max for you… introduced in 2012.
<img src="http://img.turbo.fr/05381355-photo-essai-ford-b-max.jpg" width=650>
It's a shame those aren't available in Canada, because I suddenly want one.
Something like this? 😉
<img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-C4MIKt9XCrQ/Tyk1FOK65LI/AAAAAAAAAMQ/Q_z4GnGWw6Y/s1600/Ford+B-MAX+Exterior.jpg" width="600" img>
<img src="http://www.car-list.com/newcars/2005/image/2005_mazda_rx8_doors.jpg" /img>
Mazda made it happen.
I'll just leave this here.
<img src="http://farm1.staticflickr.com/171/367982563_75bea13704.jpg">
Go Go Gadget Go!
Needs agricultural tires.
Actually I think it needs tiny little tires. If you're looking silly, might as well own it.
You may be on to something. How about a compromise: agriculturals in the front, 12" rims w/rubber-bands in the back.
He's even got the right paint scheme for 'em.
<img src="http://flipacars.com/pics/John%20Deere/john-deere-tractor-04.jpg", width="500">
Tall cars per se, not so much. Taller greenhouses? Hell yes.
You already know my position on this. (It's also a 'hell yes'.)
The floral business is that good, that you need a taller greenhouse?
You joke, but a greenhouse has been on her wish list for a long time.
But cars today are pretty damn tall all around. I've been driving around a '95 Sable recently, and that thing is dwarfed by those super high Mazda 3s and Honda Civics. We've got very tall cars, they're just better at hiding it.
In some magazine somewhere that I can't find now, at the peak of the SUV craze, there was an interesting comparison test done between the Excursion and a pre-war Lincoln. The overall dimensions were virtually identical.
My coworker refers to his Trailblazer as a "car", and, well, why not. My friend's Acadian is unquestionably a car. I wouldn't mind driving it, so therefore I can't allow it to be called an SUV.
It's all in your mind …
It really is. My Jeep TJ is no longer than a Geo Metro, and maybe just a bit wider. It looks big because it's tall. The JK Wranglers are actually shorter than my TJ, but they're slightly wider. The wheelbase only differs by an inch, and the two Jeeps are the same height. But they look so much bigger. I really need to park next to a two door JK, and really see what's going on.
As I said above, it's easy to forget how tall the pre-war cars were. Maybe that whole three box sedan thing was just a fad.
Thanks to the invention of the CUV, I don't think tall cars ever went away. In general I despise them (see PT Cruiser et al). However I would definitely consider driving something like an SX4 or an early Forester.
<img src="http://www.driving.ca/research-car/roadtest/3413922.bin?size=620×400" width="600">
<img src="http://media.wheels.ca/vehicles/1028/709434/2001-Subaru-Forester-709434-1-sm.jpg" width="600">
And I think of 1st gen CR-Vs as cars too.
<img src="https://cdn2.content.compendiumblog.com/uploads/user/3830be5e-cdd1-486f-a4e4-308bac9591c9/9b3dc15a-0a14-43fd-87e5-f5cbd9353e42/Image/e01e90bd2d0c90d7569af186eaa67d0d/2000_sebring_silver_metallic_honda_crv_w640.jpeg" width="600">
Should Tall Cars Make a Comeback? NO! Because tall cars are already here and they keep getting taller!
<img src="http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/696/image18eb.jpg" width="670/">
Should Low Cars Make a Comeback? YES PLEASE! And give us back those low beltlines too! (205 GTI vs 208 GTI).
What is this?! Some cruel trick for the color blind?!
I can't stop trying to see the two cars but it's giving me a headache!
+1 I would like to see some lower cars as well. Even if I can't fit.
<img src="http://www.theautolog.com/uploads/jbird97/4398/1998-Lincoln-Mark-VIII-LSC-5534.jpg">
+1 for low cars with low beltlines!
Also, low cars means better fuel economy and better highway performance. And, you can package a low car quite well, just gotta make it longer, and add seat recline. The only problem is if you want to store anything above the engine (think Type 2/3/4 VWs).
By tall you mean FAT?
It's possible to be tall AND fat.
True. I am a testament to this.
1st Gen Scion xB. Tall, small car. At the DC auto show back when these were new, I saw a father and his adult son 6'4" and 6'7" sit one in front of the other in this car, with plenty of head and legroom, because the floor is low, the roof is high and the seats are upright, and high off of the floor. Amazing packaging!
Most CUVs on the other hand raise the floor for perceived off-road worthiness that many of them don't have and few of them will ever need. They can only be so tall over all, so compared to a mini-van of roughly the same roof height, the vertical space inside is MUCH shorter! This makes getting into the vehicle harder for kids (higher step in) and for adults (higher step in, lower roof) and makes getting adults into the third row damned near impossible (nasty crouching lunge past the middle row, while trying to fit between floor and ceiling.) Once you do make it to the third row, the seats are lower to the floor, reducing leg room, and the effort to make CUVs look "sporty" by giving them sloping roofs cuts out headroom for the third row and rear visibility for the driver.
So, yeah, tall cars have some utility. Minivans are ALL about utility, and the utility that gives CUVs their "U" is sadly missing in many cases.
I think the CUV is the new tall car.
One of the big reasons the tall car has gone away is that it's easier to enable mandated safety systems in a car with a high belt line and with thick pillars.
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