Hooniverse Asks- How Long Should a New Car Last?

Robert Emslie

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Owing to features demanded by buyers, and the safety and emissions regulations that pretty much every industrialized nation imposes on vehicles plying their roads, it’s safe to say that today’s cars and trucks are the most complicated in history. You might expect that added complication to also make cars slower, less efficient, and far less reliable than their simpler and less complicated predecessors. That however is not the case.

Cars today are the best they’ve very been, offering shocking levels of safety, performance, and economy. And, according to almost every indication and survey (I’d mention some, but I think you have to pay to say their names) they are also the most reliable and long-lived. That brings up today’s query, which is: how long do you think a new car should realistically last? Now, I am referring to cars that are properly maintained, and with the exclusion of the expected consumables that are intended to be depleted through use.

It used to be a rule of thumb that, on average, a typical car’s useful lifespan would be about 10 years or 100,000 miles. Oh sure, there were the odd Volvo or Mercedes that lasted far beyond that, but they were countered by cars that were pretty much on borrowed time while being driven off the showroom floor. Today that’s different, and I think we have both Government regulation and the Japanese manufacturers’ decision in the seventies to compete on quality to thank for it. What do you think, how long should a new car last these days? 

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Robert Emslie

Robert Emslie

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87 responses to “Hooniverse Asks- How Long Should a New Car Last?”

  1. OA5599 Avatar
    OA5599

    I've had the opposite experience. Older cars last the longest. I've got stuff from the 60's that's lasted half a century so far, but my post-y2k cars haven't even lasted a decade yet.

    Reply
    1. dculberson Avatar
      dculberson

      Funny, isn't it? The newer the car, the fewer years it's spent on the road! These new fangled overhead valve things aren't proven. I'm sticking with sleeve valves and tube tires. 😉

      Reply
      1. MVEilenstein Avatar
        MVEilenstein

        Don't forget to advance the spark.

        Reply
    2. IronBallsMcG Avatar
      IronBallsMcG

      LOL

      Reply
  2. calzonegolem Avatar
    calzonegolem

    With proper maintenance they should last indefinitely.
    Sometimes an engine swap is proper maintenance.

    Reply
    1. wisc47 Avatar
      wisc47

      I completely agree. So then as cars become more complicated, wont they become more expensive and more difficult to maintain? When something goes wrong on a newer car, the owner will say, "screw it, it's not worth it, I'll just buy something new." They have the potential to last a long time but I just don't see that being the case due to the lack of motivation on part of both the owner and mechanic.

      Reply
      1. calzonegolem Avatar
        calzonegolem

        That's what separates hoons from the rest of the world.
        Sure cars will only become harder to work on, but with preventative maintenance they will last longer and longer. We've got to rise to the challenge and get with the times. in 30 years this 2013 car will be someone's classic. It's our duty to preserve them for the next gen of hoonlets.

        Reply
        1. Syrax Avatar
          Syrax

          I want to live to see the day when someone gets a Villa D'Este award for their pristine Cimarron.

          Reply
          1. calzonegolem Avatar
            calzonegolem

            And now … so do I.

          2. mdharrell Avatar
            mdharrell

            Worst of Show, 2011 Concours d'LeMons:
            <img src="http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/1988-cadillac-cimarron-embed-photo-414579-s-original.jpg&quot; width="450">

          3. calzonegolem Avatar
            calzonegolem

            I can almost die a happy man now.

        2. wisc47 Avatar
          wisc47

          Ladies and Gentlemen , to your wrenches!

          Reply
  3. muthalovin Avatar
    muthalovin

    At least, LEAST the life of the loan. Considering that new cars loans can be had at 72 months (I think I saw 80 once, but I might have been looking at a house), that should be the minimum.

    Reply
    1. P161911 Avatar
      P161911

      75 months is now common, I believe 84 month financing is available too.

      Reply
      1. muthalovin Avatar
        muthalovin

        Oh man, I could probably afford a monthly payment on a Raptor for 84 months!

        Reply
  4. SSurfer321 Avatar
    SSurfer321

    150-200k miles* with regular maintenance.
    *excludes vehicles in rust belt.
    My 05 F150 and 08 Impreza both just turned 100k and both drive just like the day I bought them (brand new) and show now signs of slowing.

    Reply
    1. Peter Tanshanomi Avatar
      Peter Tanshanomi

      Yea, that's about my expectations. We've unloaded our last couple of cars between 138K & 160K, so if my next car lasted 150K I wouldn't be too disappointed. If it went 200K, I'd be delighted.
      Thanks to the Town Cow's broken odometer, I have only a rough idea of how many miles are on it, but it's probably somewhere around 132-135K right now, and it shows no sign of giving up the ghost anytime soon.

      Reply
      1. failboat Avatar
        failboat

        200K should be the new 100K.

        Reply
    2. wunno sev Avatar
      wunno sev

      rust is no excuse anymore!
      we are past the days when every car in the midwest would rust out in a decade. it's not often that i see cars past the early '00s rusted out even in chicago. everything's galvanized now, and paint is much better than it used to be. barring accident repairs and scrapes that go untended, cars just don't rust like they used to.
      the biggest exception is those poor mazda proteges…..

      Reply
      1. salguod Avatar
        salguod

        And now Mazda3s. My '05 is slowly rusting away. Not as bad as a Protege, but it's left it's (rusty) mark on my driveway.

        Reply
        1. wunno sev Avatar
          wunno sev

          yeah i've heard about that. brutal.

          Reply
  5. Civic Discourse Avatar
    Civic Discourse

    mmm….7th-gen Civic cluster…

    Reply
  6. Sjalabais Avatar
    Sjalabais

    My quick answer is "next century".
    <img src="http://www.productioncars.com/send_file.php/ad_volvo_240_series_1984.jpg&quot; width="600">
    In my neck of the woods, mechanicals are not the problem with the rather proper cars. Rust is the issue. One might think that carmakers have learned to manage that during the last decades, but I am among those who have seen 2005 Mazda's recently. Electronics will be difficult to service soon, but I trust in private enterprise. So I'd land on "40 years" or "500000km".

    Reply
    1. stickmanonymous Avatar
      stickmanonymous

      Sadly, by 2000, they hadn't. Pity…

      Reply
      1. Sjalabais Avatar
        Sjalabais

        Sadly, I'd have to agree. So we'd better stick to proper bricks.

        Reply
  7. Dave Avatar
    Dave

    I disagree that they are lasting longer, because unless it's something special once it's past about 6 or 7 years old something like a clutch change or new injectors can turn end up costing more that the car is worth

    Reply
    1. Devin Avatar
      Devin

      Hasn't that always been the case? The clutch on my old Honda was 30 times what I paid for the car!
      (I paid $20 for the car).

      Reply
      1. Sjalabais Avatar
        Sjalabais

        Where do I sign up for 20$ cars?

        Reply
        1. Devin Avatar
          Devin

          It is a long and complicated story and I don't actually know most of it, but I do know I got a slightly rusty Honda Civic out of the bargain and I was happy.

          Reply
          1. Sjalabais Avatar
            Sjalabais

            Very good bargain, indeed. On the other end, I just sold my wife's 1996 1.3 Corolla for 4300$ and should be happy with that. Just doesn't feel like we live in the same uni…Hooniverse.

  8. BB7 Avatar
    BB7

    I do not consider 75,000 miles "high mileage". 120,00 is high. Any vehicle made today should be able to reach 150,000 miles, given a reasonable life.

    Reply
  9. Rich Avatar
    Rich

    182k on my '03 Acura…192k on my '00 Astro cargo van.

    Reply
  10. danleym Avatar
    danleym

    For all the advancements that have been made, I really think 200k miles, with proper maintenance, should be the standard. Proper maintenance, for that interval, should be expected to be a couple relatively major repairs, but we shouldn't be talking a whole new engine or transmission at that point. As much as some people drive, 100k miles is less than 5 years for some, so 100,000 miles just doesn't cut it anymore.

    Reply
    1. Jake Avatar
      Jake

      I think 200k on a well-kept car is easily achievable these days, but I also think that most people don’t do much/any of the PM required to get it there. The logic seems to be “I already have to spend $500 a month on the payment and gas and insurance – this other stuff that’s optional? Pff. Forget that…” Follow the schedule on oil changes, transmission service, and timing belt (if equipped) changes, and things will go well. 200k is my target for the Hyundai I bought in December. Powertrain is under warranty on it until then, and so I’m planning on making it happen if I can. Just hoping the electronics and stuff hold up. We will see.
      I drive about 20k miles a year, because my commute is stupid (exurban/rural living has its benefits, but you spend some time in the car…) – we got our old 2002 Montero Sport to ~160k miles before we got rid of it due to a transmission that we could never get ironed back out after it started slipping. Even at that I’ll confess that we probably didn’t PM the transmission in that car as well as we should have- so I can’t blame the car too terribly much. I was really frustrated at having to get rid of it – it wasn’t fancy, but it was paid for, and everything but that one big major piece was in really good shape.

      Reply
  11. danleym Avatar
    danleym

    Also, this is way off topic but I haven't had any other decent spot to put it and I'm really excited- I'll be putting another 1,000 miles on my K5 (putting it really close to 200k, by the way) next week, when I move to Colorado. For good. I'm really looking forward to putting St. Louis in the rear view mirror.

    Reply
    1. MVEilenstein Avatar
      MVEilenstein

      Write when you get work!
      You should post this up in the forum and make a road trip thread out of it.

      Reply
      1. danleym Avatar
        danleym

        I already have work! I got a job there, which spurred the move (on short notice, too- I found out last Monday and I leave here this Friday to start work next Monday). I've lived there before, and my wife is from there, so we've been looking to go back for a while.
        Unfortunately, there isn't much of interest along the way for a road trip. I'll stay on I-70 through all of Missouri and Kansas, then get on US-24, which takes me right to my destination (ok, my destination is 1/2 mile off US-24). And anyone who has ever driven across Kansas on I-70 knows there isn't much to write about, other than a few windmills. But if anything exciting happens (hopefully not…), I'll post up.
        I also won't be on here as much, maybe just a quick look in the evening- the new job isn't an office job (woohoo!), so no more wasting time online during the work day. But I'll actually like this job and be excited about going in, so I'll gladly trade some Hooniverse time for that.

        Reply
  12. BЯдΖǐL-ЯЄРΘЯΤЄЯ Avatar
    BЯдΖǐL-ЯЄРΘЯΤЄЯ

    No limit, 39 years old and still on the tracks.
    <img src="http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/906618_10200974204987076_934541_o.jpg&quot; width="600">

    Reply
    1. dukeisduke Avatar
      dukeisduke

      Watch out for that train!

      Reply
  13. Maymar Avatar
    Maymar

    I know it's no problem for a car to pass 250k kms around here, even with rust, and I think I'd expect anything I bought from new to surpass 300k kms in my care (dependant on me wanting to hang on to something for that long). I'd be a little more wary about buying something approaching that mileage as there's just a few too many variables in its history, though.

    Reply
  14. Alff Avatar
    Alff

    When Dodge introduced the new style Ram in 2002, they made a big deal about it being designed for a 150,000 mile service life, where it's predecessor was built to go 100K.
    The question doesnt have a single answer. It depends upon how far the owner is willing to go to keep it on the road. Every car I've sold still had life in it – I usually just got bored with it.

    Reply
    1. Peter Tanshanomi Avatar
      Peter Tanshanomi

      "The question doesnt have a single answer. It depends upon how far the owner is willing to go to keep it on the road. Every car I've sold still had life in it – I usually just got bored with it."
      I agree that it's a very soft point to define. Although I've never gotten rid of a vehicle (at least of the four wheel variety) just because I was bored with it. I was bored with my Escort wagon about 6 months after I bought it, and I drove that for 11 years. The last few cars we've gotten rid of were due to repairs that would have been too high in comparison to the car's value: two head gasket failures, a broken subframe mount, broken piston ring, and one totaled in a collision.

      Reply
    2. Peter Tanshanomi Avatar
      Peter Tanshanomi

      In the past couple weeks, we did get rid of two motorcycle and two PWCs just because we were bored with them. Which reminds me, I have something new to show you Wednesday.

      Reply
      1. Alff Avatar
        Alff

        I have a feeling I'm going to be jealous.

        Reply
        1. Peter Tanshanomi Avatar
          Peter Tanshanomi

          Maybe. But perhaps you'll just find it weird.

          Reply
          1. Alff Avatar
            Alff

            Is there a difference?

          2. mdharrell Avatar
            mdharrell

            Sometimes.

          3. calzonegolem Avatar
            calzonegolem

            This is funny because it is true.

  15. JayP2112 Avatar
    JayP2112

    When the maintenance becomes more than a car payment.
    Using dealer service, that point is right after the factory warranty ends. I'm looking at you AUDI!

    Reply
  16. P161911 Avatar
    P161911

    I can't remember the exact quote but I seem to remember from an article about Morgan Cars something along the lines of: "We intend to build one car per customer and expect that car to last the lifetime of the customer."
    I expect 250k miles out of a car with good upkeep. But at a certain point it becomes how much wear and tear you are willing to put up with and if you are willing to refurbish the vehicle or just replace it. Most cars will start looking pretty tired by 150k miles, but still function just fine for transportation. I just took my wife's Trailblazer to the shop for the first time (other than a radio repair under warranty at the dealer and oil changes) today. I've worked on it myself a few times (replaced, fan, water pump, temp sending unit and gauge motors). It still runs and drives OK. After almost two years of hauling around a child I paid a car wash to to a complete interior shampoo on Saturday. It needs to last at least another 5 years, until my Silverado is paid off.
    I bought a new 2011 Silverado WT. According to my calculations, I might not need another truck if I can get it to go 500k miles.

    Reply
  17. BradleyBrownell Avatar
    BradleyBrownell

    My 95 Audi S6 has 180,000 miles.
    My 83 Porsche 944 had 180,000 miles on it when I sold it.
    My 2008 Mazda3 already has 75,000 miles, and I think it'll last another 150,000 or so. I'll likely grow bored with it long before then, however.

    Reply
  18. wisc47 Avatar
    wisc47

    My parents own both a 1996 Accord and a 2003 Pilot. Even though the Accord has been crashed three times I believe (It's gone through 5 teenage drivers) and the Pilot hasn't been crashed at all, the Accord is still the more reliable and fresher feeling of the two cars, even though they have similar (185k for the pilot and 165k for the Accord). I know there's a 20k disparity but I believe the Accord will last longer due to it's lower costs of maintenance and simpler build.

    Reply
  19. Senor Smee Avatar
    Senor Smee

    I bought my Lexus when it was 10-years old and it was like a new car to me. Now its going on 14 years old and still seems nearly new. I think i could drive this car 10 more years quite easily.

    Reply
  20. dukeisduke Avatar
    dukeisduke

    My '95 F-150 had 214k miles on it when I traded it in last October. I expect the '13 Tacoma to last at least that long, based on what I hear from other Tacoma owners. I think just about any new car should last 200k (Mitsubishis excluded).

    Reply
  21. dculberson Avatar
    dculberson

    My current daily driver has 239,000 miles on it and drives like a new car. It's tight with no rattles and the engine has an enormous amount of power. Of course, I did just have to rebuild the top end since the previous owner had the timing belt break on him because some dummy replaced the belt but not the water pump. But with fresh valves and consumables, I now expect this motor will easily last another hundred thousand miles. Probably more.

    Reply
  22. Newport Pagnell Avatar
    Newport Pagnell

    A friend of mine has a Chevy Aveo with over 350k miles. Still going strong,with minor repairs. He's maintenance nut tho….A&P to be exact.

    Reply
  23. Devin Avatar
    Devin

    At a bare minimum, double the longest finance option or 350,000 kms, whichever takes longest. But it should be indefinite if you treat it right.

    Reply
  24. lilwillie Avatar
    lilwillie

    In the rust belt of Wisconsin seeing 300K is considered doing very well.
    I remember 20 years ago when I just started wrenching 100K was the magic number. If something was above that is was pretty much garbage and a "beater with a heater". Slowly that number went to 150K and 200K. Much of the reason it rose was the fact the materials on the body were made better and cars weren't rusting out. Chevy trucks from the 80's could easily do 300K but the bodies never held up so the owners usually sold them off for wood haulers or junk trucks to kids to beat the snot out of.
    Right now we have a few fleets we service in the 300K and they don't have any intention of getting rid of them until the body starts falling off.
    With the economy still in the tank there are a lot of people that never would have keep a car past 150K that are pushing 200K on their vehicles now. Makes me happy to see.

    Reply
  25. Scandinavian Flick ★ Avatar
    Scandinavian Flick ★

    <img src="http://imageshack.us/a/img826/4315/sandlotforevero.gif"&gt;

    Reply
  26. Scandinavian Flick ★ Avatar
    Scandinavian Flick ★

    Serious answer: The main problem I see with a car (or any product, for that matter…) "lasting" is when repair costs exceed replacement costs. What I am noticing is that depreciation on newer cars seems to be pretty significant, especially when looking at more expensive luxury models. Also, repair costs are seemingly higher as well… Thus, I don't see the longevity of newer cars being higher from a financial standpoint.

    Reply
    1. skitter Avatar
      skitter

      The question is whether the replacement cost seems lower, or truly is lower. I'm from the school of thought where you spend $1k to repair a $1k car. That way the one (main) thing wrong with it is taken care of. The $1k 'new' car is a total unknown, and may need repairs or replacements even quicker. Surely, if I upped the budget, I could be paying for some low-level lease or loan. But again, at that point, I have a chance of making ALL of the repairs on the current beater, as opposed to paying for the 'new' car FOR. EVER.

      Reply
      1. danleym Avatar
        danleym

        That's my reason for not replacing. I've spent a good amount of money keeping my K5 on the road. But I know my K5. I know what has been fixed won't need fixed again anytime soon. And I don't want a car payment. So, if I get a new vehicle, I'm looking in the $5k-$6k range, maybe $7k for the right vehicle. And any car for that price brings in a whole new set of unknown problems. I'll stick with the devil I know.
        Plus, I really like old Blazers.

        Reply
      2. Scandinavian Flick ★ Avatar
        Scandinavian Flick ★

        Very valid point, and typically my school of thought as well. I think the problem in new cars lies in multiple repairs that cost multiple thousands when the car has depreciated to the $10k area, such as seems to be the case with previous generation BMWs, Mercedes and even VWs.
        I guess my problem is sourcing information from cars that people don't typically consider reliable in the first place…

        Reply
      3. BЯдΖǐL-ЯЄРΘЯΤЄЯ Avatar
        BЯдΖǐL-ЯЄРΘЯΤЄЯ

        I do have two cars, one a 39 year old Opala and the other a 2011 crewcab S10 truck (mostly my wife's car), if I decided not to drive for a year, the Opala would cost me nothing (probably gain some value), but my truck would cost me more or less U$ 4,000.00 in that year only with insurance, tax and depreciation. If I would choose for a shitty small car as my second car that would cost me still U$ 2,500.00 a year without driving it.
        Depreciation and inflation are two costs most people don't count correctly.

        Reply
    2. I Think Not Avatar
      I Think Not

      I think another problem is parts availability. With some models, you can raid the junkyard seemingly forever for the part you need, long after even the Chinese have stopped making replacements.
      But with new car cycles getting ever shorter, and more dramatic changes being made each model cycle, it's harder to say "yup, this part from this year (insert appliance car) will fit my [appliance car]."
      Case in point: Bolting an SBC from an 80's GM product into any RWD GM product that came before it? Child's play. Transmission will bolt right up, likely the mounts, too, and you can probably use the original exhaust manifolds. Bolting an R18 from a current Civic into one from just 2003? Doable, but you're going to need a lot of custom parts to make it work for very little payoff other than getting your car mobile again with little to no power increase.

      Reply
  27. mdharrell Avatar
    mdharrell

    I have no idea.

    Reply
  28. Preludacris Avatar
    Preludacris

    My previous car was finished at 450,000 km (~280k miles), so that's my benchmark, but I'd really like my current car to make at least the 500km mark.
    It has an ECU, so it's a new car, right?

    Reply
  29. JoeIzusu'sUncle Avatar
    JoeIzusu'sUncle

    I have a 1986 Toyota Corolla with 450Kmi on it. Oil every 5k, timing belt on schedule and new tires when needed. It has nothing to go wrong and nothing has gone wrong. It is a non-interference engine, so even if the timing belt breaks I am ok, so long as it is not in the middle of nowhere.

    Reply
  30. mightymaxima02 Avatar
    mightymaxima02

    200,000 miles seems to Norm today. my 1997 Volkswagen Golf track has 270,000 miles I got the car and just over 150,000 who knows how was just before and I am anything but Soft with it. and my friends Toyota 4runner 2006 has 180,000 miles and runs as smooth as ever

    Reply
  31. MVEilenstein Avatar
    MVEilenstein

    The Hag said "Let's make Ford and Chevy still last 10 years, like they should." I'd argue for something slightly more than that.
    This topic came up yesterday, as my wife and I were driving to church. Our Focus has 145,000 miles on it, and she asked me how long the car would last (she wants to buy an SUV). I told her as long as we take care of it and give it regular maintenance, I expect at least 300,000 from it, considering it's only 9 years old. We've put 120,000 of those miles on the car since we purchased it in 2006.
    My parents own a Saturn SL2 with over 300,000 miles on the original motor, so it can be done pretty easily.
    Really, I think the question these days is how long an owner will last before getting rid of an old, but reliable, car.

    Reply
  32. MVEilenstein Avatar
    MVEilenstein

    I know lots of people weigh the monthly payment v. repair costs, but there's something infinitely more satisfying to me to spend a little money on my truck, knowing I owe no one a dime for it, and knowing most of the depreciation happened while someone else drove it. Unless the frame is cracked and body is falling apart, I'll keep spending money on maintenance and repairs.

    Reply
  33. duurtlang_ Avatar
    duurtlang_

    With decent maintenance and a proper driver: 300k km for a gasoline powered car, 400k km for a diesel. Minimum. Cars tend to get junked within a few years after they've been sold to an owner who's payed pennies for it, as those owners tend to equate maintenance to filling the fuel tank.
    I've seen plenty of of 450k km gasoline(/LPG) powered Peugeot 406s mechanically similar to my coupe which has a mere 180k km, so I'm not too worried. My 1991 mk2 Golf with 290k km is ready for another 100k km as well. It's still completely original, including 4 speed and 54 hp gasoline engine. After a quick tuneup I'd take trust it to take me on a roadtrip around the world. However, a friend of mine had to get rid of his 190k km ~2000 Focus wagon as it was completely worn out. And rusty. So it's a combination of choosing the right car, driving it right and maintaining it properly.
    I fear for more modern cars though. There are too many computerized or proprietary parts that are insanely expensive to replace. It'll junk these cars prematurely. A touch screen controlling the hvac system? really? If you were to look back half a century from now I think of the cars built until now the cars from the 90s will be the ones that will have lasted the longest.

    Reply
  34. Sjalabais Avatar
    Sjalabais

    As a sociologist, I'd like to add some meat to the debate of what constitutes the average life length of the cars we're talking about. Here are the Norwegian numbers, with English language links to numbers and tables. Who can supply more countries' numbers?
    The average age of cars in Norway has been above 10 years for more than a decade. The EU-average is 8.3 years, the oldest stock is to be found in Estonia (12.0 years), the youngest in Ireland (6.3 years). The average scrapping age of cars in Norway is a stunning 18.1 years.
    Now to the exciting stuff. This table supplies us with the average age, number in age brackets and share of total private car stock displayed by make. Norway has always had a "cash for clunkers" program, albeit with a tiny refund. All the cars available here have been scrapped for a refund. So in other words: What rots in backyards is not counted. Also be aware that the "youngest scrapped" cars Kia (14.2 years) and Skoda (13.9 years) are among makes that haven't been sold in the country with significant numbers until fairly recently. That skews their scrapping age since an older stock is simply missing.
    The cars scrapped at the highest age are: Chevrolet (22.5 years), Volvo (21.8 years) and Mercedes-Benz (21.3 years). Here it is interesting to note that Chevys are cars for special tastes, and that Chevy vans are reused by graduating high schoolers every year until they just don't run anymore. The numbers are also fairly small – 200 Chevys more than 20 years old were scrapped in 2012, 3198 Mercedes and 2585 Volvos of that vintage.
    There are a lot of interesting numbers to dive in. The car park's biggest contributors are Volkswagen (340147 cars), Toyota (305241) and Volvo (189279).

    Reply
    1. Battles Avatar
      Battles

      Thanks for the infoporn.

      Reply
  35. C³-Cool Cadillac Cat Avatar
    C³-Cool Cadillac Cat

    Any vehicle produced since about 1995, with few exceptions, should be expected to last until 200K miles, on the original engine, as long as it's not overly abused.
    Yeah, you may need a clutch, possibly a transmission, the A/C may not work, and some minor things either may not work, or do not work properly.
    Starters/alternators/water pumps used to be how I measured a vehicle's 'age'. Oooh, third water pump…yeah, it's getting tired.
    Or, "WAIT, ANOTHER FREAKIN' STARTER?!
    Chrysler gear-reduction starter…they sound neat, but :ANGRY FACE:
    It's different, now. Much different.
    The 1995 W124 I gave to my stepson for Xmas last year now has 205K on it, reverse hasn't worked since 153K. Meh. You adapt.
    Though, Mercedes, Toyota, and Honda tend to be outliers. At least they used to be.
    My '05 STS has 111K on it, I think, and it will last until 200K, easily…though I'd like to kill the 'engineer' who decided transmission fluid never needs to be changed.
    The fill plug is next-to-impossible to remove, seeing as it's just about inaccessible and was tightened to 80 ft. lbs. on the assembly line.
    OTOH, if you have a diesel MB, 250K miles is about halfway done. You'll likely tire of looking at it before it dies.

    Reply
  36. marmer01 Avatar
    marmer01

    '93 Camry: 330,000. '99 Audi A4 Avant: 229,000. '03 Chrysler T&C minivan: 160,000. Miles, not kilometers. Actually, around my house there is serious discussion of the question: "Do we need a new car?" The trending answer, since it is easier and cheaper to do nothing, is "no." The thing that upsets me about both the Toyota and the Audi is that a lot of the interior trim is very brittle, resists gluing, and is only intermittently available from any kind of new-stock source.
    I sure wouldn't kick a beater Miata out of the garage, though.

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    1. I Think Not Avatar
      I Think Not

      The answer to the failing interior is to make your own, of course! It's a perfect opportunity to design something awesome from scratch and brush up (or develop) your metal working (or fiberglass molding) skills!

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    2. Devin Avatar
      Devin

      Fun fact, heavy bass will remove all of the fake wood trim in a Chrysler Dynasty over about a month. I discovered this when a friend decided to fill his own Dynasty with subwoofers.
      That's a tangent, but relevant in terms of interior trim destruction.

      Reply
  37. MattC Avatar
    MattC

    My newer cars of the past decade should easily last at least 200k if not more mileage if a modicum of preventive maintenance is done. My record is a 1993 Legacy GT Wagon with a hair under 300k until it was rear ended in a snow storm. My 2001 Mitsubishi Mirage lasted over 200k with exactly 2 unscheduled maintenance items (a busted high side A/C fitting, and 1 dead battery). My beater 2001 GMC Sonoma has 150k with no signs of slowing. I credit better quality control, closer tolerances, better oils, and a reverse away from planned obsolescence strategy of earlier manufacturing methods.
    NowI also have a 1973 Super Beetle to should continue to delivery long service but that requires much more preventive care on my part.

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  38. ptschett Avatar
    ptschett

    I say 150,000 miles without a major repair for 5th-percentile severe-duty service. The average customer would be more like 200,000.
    Major repair defined roughly as: any transmission repair that requires transmission disassembly beyond dismounting it from the engine for a manual-transmission clutch replacement; any engine repair requiring head or oil-pan removal; any repair to drive axles or a 4×4/AWD transfer case requiring the axle or transfer case to be opened; any suspension/brake/steering repair beyond replacement of tie-rod ends, shock absorbers, or brake pads/shoes & discs/drums.

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  39. bigev007 Avatar
    bigev007

    Here it seems to time, not miles that kill cars. Anything that lasts to 10 years is considered good. Anything above that is gravy. I junked a car recently with more rust than worth fixing at only 266k kms and 10 years. Good mechanically, but the rockers on both sides were gone from well to well. All the hard lines were on borrowed time, and the fenders were rotten. I had this car 8 years and washed/maintained it well.
    I don't remember the last time I saw a Lumina, or a "most reliable car ever" generation Camry. Most 90s cars are just gone.
    I expect to mile instead of age out my new Civic ('09). I've put on115000 kms in the last 18 months, and this should continue for the next few years. If this happens, I will be the only one of my friends who has had a car die from miles instead of rust. On the plus side, junkyard engines and trans are plentiful and cheap.
    SO I guess I think a new car should last 15-20 years, regardless of miles

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  40. Guest Avatar
    Guest

    I had a 1988 Crown Victoria that reached 250,000 miles. My 1999 Ford Taurus is at 145,000 and counting.
    Pretty darn good reliability in my opinion.

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  41. Mark Anthony Avatar
    Mark Anthony

    1999 Cadillac Seville SLS. 155,000 miles. Been in the family since new. My view is that the cheapest way to own a car is to maintain it well and drive it forever. Both the dealer and my other mechanic agree that 300k plus is possible on the Northstar engine. They also agree that it probably be the computerized systems that will doom the car (and all cars with extensive computer systems) and not the mechanical's. I know several people that are driving japanese cars with 200k+ on the odometer, one Honda Accord I know is on it's 3rd engine rebuild. The owner guesstimates 500k on it at least.

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  42. HTWHLS Avatar
    HTWHLS

    Having grown up in the era of a vehicle with 100k miles not being worth more than the drive to the junkyard, I've purchased many cars around that mileage and made them run for another 50-60K with minor work (fluid flush/fill, tune-up, brake jobs, water pumps, radiators, etc.) and lived with whatever I couldn't fix (a/c) or didn't matter.
    Newer cars (onset of OBD-1) are somewhat different. They had the rust issues we're all familiar with (still working out the kinks of HSS and such) but ran better. OBD-II engines and their assorted electronics are much better, along with the rust-prevention, so I'll say easily 200K miles before a serious repair would negate my effort, let alone what it would cost for a shop to do. (Dealer rates immediately drive this point far lower.)

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  43. HTWHLS Avatar
    HTWHLS

    There are outliers at both ends of the spectrum, of course. And I sweat like crazy of the electronics in newer cars. My commuter Focus is a great example. I did not go for the $8k nav/entertainment package – didn't make sense on an $18K car, but the dealership still tried to sell me an extra extended warranty, just for the electronics (electronic power steering, TPMS, stereo, ECM, etc.) all cost a LOT OF MONEY to repair, as they told me. A simple radio replacement, off warranty, is about 800.00. Sure some of that is scare tactics but I'm not an EE..some of these wiring diagrams scare the hell out of me! Jumpstarting one of these newer cars is a gamble..one slip and you've lunched a 1500.00 ECM and it 9 hours of labor to get it swapped out.

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  44. HTWHLS Avatar
    HTWHLS

    I've followed what Mark Anthony has said: buy a car and maintain it well. I've done all the regularly scheduled maintenance on all my cars, and most of the repairs. I'm at the point where i have 3 cars that are all between 10-17 years old, 2 with over 100K miles and have all had their service/mileage intervals maintained. On the Focus, I'm trying something different and doing the dealer's recommended service interval and using them for it, as a gauge, primarily to see if I can the same or better life from the vehicle, and to compare the cost of my time and energy doing the work. Yeah, I know, not very hoonish, but I need to get my butt back and forth to work and frankly, I'm worried the older rides are not up to the brutalities of the commute (plus. my Impala SS was hit 4 times inside of 9 months and is now off the road for the bodywork and paint).
    It still comes down to whether the cost of the repair, whether i do it or a shop does it, outweighs the value of the car..to me. So it's a logic-driven decision, driven by illogical emotion

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    stop snoring chin guitar strap uk

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