I was discussing with a friend what modern engine would be a good swap candidate for a 1958-1960 Ramber American. When I mentioned the Buick 3800 V6, he recoiled in disgust. “You can’t replace a straight six with a V6; that’s blasphemy.” Well, it turns out that by his yardstick, there are a lot of blasphemous manufacturers out there, because a number of platforms have housed both vee and straight 6-cylinder engines. And that, my friends, is the topic that will fill another blank page of our virtual reference guide.
The Caveats (there are always caveats):
- I am looking for examples of the two different configurations in the same platform, not model. That means that structurally unrelated generations that just share a nameplate don’t count. Conversely, if the same basic body shell was shared between marques or manufacturers, it need not have both engine styles under the same brand name.
- The two engine designs do not have been offered concurrently; they simply must have both been used at some point in the platform’s production run.
- Obviously, we’re talking about production cars here, so it has to be something in serial production. The only exception I’ll make is if the manufacturer displayed a prototype version of an existing model with a different engine that never made it to the assembly line.
- Cars, SUVs, light trucks, and vans are all fair game. If you can make the motorcycle or airplane thing work, I’d be very impressed.
Difficulty: 2.6 microfarads per fathom.
How This Works: Read the comments first and don’t post duplicates! Bonus points for adding photos.
Image Source: Wikipedia, paceperformance.com, and accurateengines.com.
Nissan Z, Z31 generation. Available with the VG30 here in the US, but also with an RB20 in Japan. I have a Japanese-market brochure at home somewhere, and it blew my mind when I saw it as a kid.
The fifth generation Suburban was available with an inline six and, under the GMC brand, a V6.
Fox Mustang was offered with both a 200ci straight six and the 2.8L cologne V6 at the same time.
Stole my answer. How about Fox LTD then, with 3.3 L I6 or 3.8 V6?
You are right- Thriftpower I6 then the Essex V6.
Same was true of the Fox-based second-gen Granada.
Totally works, and looking back, the Mustang also got the 3.8L Essex later on in the 80s. It was never supposed to have a straight six, but they ran out of 2.8L partway through ’79.
I was going to go with Farimont, but that again is The Fox platform. I remember reading somewhere that the engine bay was designed to fit the length of an inline six and the width of the small block v8.
So a V12 should be quite happy in there?
I just went down the F150 path only to be disappointed. The 4.9 was last offered in 1996, the 4.2 Essex was offered in 1997… when there was a switch to the new platform.
The F100 in 1982 was available with the Essex V6 though in a 3.8l displacement. The 300 I6 was available in the F150-F350 so I’d say that the F series definitely counts.
The W202 generation of the Mercedes C-Class could be had with the M104 straight 6 and later the M112 V6 on the C280.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Mercedes_W202_front_20071228.jpg
Mercedes-Benz W210 E-Class. V6 replaced the in-line 6.
1960 on first gen C/K series — straight six in the Chevies and GMC’s new V6 in the Jimmies.
Mid-80s Nissan Gloria/Cedric
They kept offering diesel I6s in Glorias and Cedrics after that as well, right up until the model line ended.
The W210 E320 started its run with the M104 I6 for 1996 and early 1997 models, but quickly switched to the new M112 V6 for the remainder of its production through 2003. The W202 C280 did a similar trick with a smaller displacement version of each engine.
Its successor, the W211, did the same trick with diesel engines, starting with the OM648 I6 and later picking up the OM642 V6.
Edit: while I was typing up my response, I see I was beaten to it excepting for the diesel W211.
Too late.
Yeah, yeah. That’s what I get for confirming my guesswork with research and typing in whole sentences.
At least my W211 answer is unique.
Research?! This is an internet site! We don’t research. We spout off at the mouth and then wait for someone to call us out! Wait…this isn’t JalAutoblog. Carry on with your research.
The Dodge Ram, I believe, has always been offered with the choice of a gas V6 or diesel I6. This current generation even has a diesel V6 thrown in for fun.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/%2711_Ram_1500_Double_Cab_%28MIAS_%2711%29.jpg/1280px-%2711_Ram_1500_Double_Cab_%28MIAS_%2711%29.jpg
The first generation Dodge Ram (really a renamed last generation D-series) also had a gasoline I6–the Slant 6.
Oooh! Good call!
Add the Mitsubishi I6 diesel to that list as well.
I’d say the Ram 1500 with the V6 is a different platform than the 2500 with the I6 diesel.
I think the first and second generation Rams qualify based on the rules, but the third and fourth are kinda iffy since the 1500s were quite a bit different from the 2500s and 3500s.
Dodge B-series vans had the slant-six for the first half of their run, then changed over to the 3.9L V6 as the base engine.
Similarly, the Chevy G-series started life with the 250 I6 and ended with the 4.3 V6.
The TVR M-series could be equipped with a Triumph 2.5L inline six or 3.0L Ford Essex V6.
Wouldn’t mind having one, even those most have been ridden hard and put away wet.
How about this one? Marcos GT. Available with inline four, V4, inline six and V6.
1.5 L Ford Kent I4
1.6 L Ford Crossflow I4
1.65 L Ford Kent I4
1.8 L Volvo B18 I4
2.0 L Ford Essex V4
2.5 L Triumph I6
3.0 L Volvo B30 I6
3.0 L Ford Essex V6
That’s extra more!
Sixth generation Impala/third generation Caprice. 229 or 231 CID V6 or 250 CID straight 6.
Jeep CJ5:
134 cu in (2.2 L) Willys Hurricane I4
225 cu in (3.7 L) Dauntless V6
151 cu in (2.5 L) Iron Duke I4
232 cu in (3.8 L) AMC I6
258 cu in (4.2 L) AMC I6
304 cu in (5.0 L) AMC V8
192 cu in (3.1 L) Perkins 4.192 I4 diesel
GM C/K trucks switched from I-6 to the 4.3L V-6 in the mid 80s. Same for full size vans.
According to my local craigslist, the BMW 3-series can be had with a V6…
https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/cto/5433912549.html
Second generation Camaro.
3.8 L V6
3.8 L I6
4.1 L I6
5.0 L V8
5.7 L V8
6.5 L V8
6.6 L V8
Looking through the Wiki’s, it seems Volvo used the PRV V6 and an I6 in the 200, 700, and 900 series…
Colonnade GM.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Oldsmobile_Cutlass_Supreme_coupe_–_05-31-2010.jpg/1920px-Oldsmobile_Cutlass_Supreme_coupe_–_05-31-2010.jpg
Only the LeMans and Olds variants were available with both, according to Wikipedia. The others either had no 6 or only one variety.
Perfectly legal under the first caveat.
“Conversely, if the same basic body shell was shared between marques or manufacturers, it need not have both engine styles under the same brand name.”
The shared platform was actually what prompted me to post my answer, and afterwards I realized that a few models had both configurations in the same brand.
Agreed, wasn’t suggesting otherwise. I just found it interesting that those were the two that qualified. I would have assumed that it would have been the Chevy only or that it’d be cross platform, as you said.
Dad had a ’77 Cutlass Supreme, much like the one in the picture but that ubiquitous orange color with tan top and accents, that he bought new. I didn’t recall any sixes available in the Cutlass (and I studied the owner’s manual well), I thought the base engine was the 260 V8.
Fourth generation Chevy Nova and its X body siblings.
Mercedes-Benz W220 S-Class: Gas V6 or a straight-six diesel.
http://www.mad4wheels.com/webpics/hires/00005615%20-%201998%20Mercedes-Benz%20S500%20(%20W220%20)/1998_Mercedes-Benz_S500_(_W220_)_001_3517.jpg
Tug 660 baggage handler came with the Ford 300 straight 6 and the 3.2L V-6. Lots of Industrial type stuff used the 300 and had to switch when Ford ended production. http://www.aeroservicios.com/system/images/2814_0.jpg
The 1971-6 full size GM B-bodies. I-6 available in the Chevy, V-6 available in the Buick.
Ninth-Gen Ford Thunderbird came with the 3.8 L Essex V6 and was prototyped with a “T-Drive” engine that I’m pretty sure was a straight 6.
http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-ford/FMC-engines/t-drive/default.htm
http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-ford/FMC-engines/t-drive/t_drive-3.jpg
http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-ford/FMC-engines/t-drive/t_drive-4.jpg
The T-Drive was never really available though.
“The only exception I’ll make is if the manufacturer displayed a prototype version of an existing model with a different engine that never made it to the assembly line.”
Now you know specifically why I included that. Well done, 1977ChevyTruck!
I thought T Drive was a straight eight.
Next week: models that had both a Straight-8 and a V8!
Ford experimented with T-Drive in two vehicles: the Thunderbird and Tempo. Oddly, the Tempo got the straight-8 while the Thunderbird got the straight-6.
^ What he said.
I give you the Rayton-Fissore Magnum, best known in this country as the LaForza, but that one had V8s so they don’t count for this question. When introduced, it had (among other options) an Alfa V6, which was replaced by a BMW I6.
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5151b481e4b01fd1f7075ea1/t/54c620a9e4b01cdc72d75b1a/1422270635149/
I think you’re confusing it with the Daihatsu Rocky-based Bertone Freeclimber, which was available with BMW I6s, both gas and diesel. The Magnum was available with a supercharged Fiat twincam, the Alfa V6 and three different four-cylinder turbodiesels from Iveco and VM Motori.
I’m not confusing it with the Bertone Freeclimber. After a 1988 update the Magnum was available with a BMW M30B35 I6 – in addition to the various diesels you mention, of course. A lot of engines were available in that thing.
Second gen F-bodies made the switch from I-6 to V-6, though I don’t think they were ever offered concurrently in the same model. It looks like in 78-79, you could get a V-6 Firebird or I-6 Camaro.
1977 Olds Omega had the Buick V-6 in place of the I-6 from prior years. Its sister car, the 4th generation Chevy Nova, maintained the I-6 through the model life, ending in 1979.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/1977_Oldsmobile_Omega.jpg/420px-1977_Oldsmobile_Omega.jpg
I tried, but all I found was a V6 conversion (tens of airplanes!) of what usually would be a flat-four:
http://www.airport-data.com/images/aircraft/small/000/370/370712.jpg
I didn’t quite understand why this was a good idea, must be a license thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javelin_V6_STOL
But a hearty cheer for giving it the ol’ college try!
The fourth gen Ford Econoline van was available with the 4.9 straight six and later the 4.2L V6.
The current Australian Ford Territory: 2.7L V6 Diesel or 4.0L I6 Petrol
Back to the engine choice for the Rambler American… is there a discussion about that? I have a ’60 wagon for which I’m considering a Duratec 2.3 (from a Ranger). I’d love to hear opinions.
327 from an Ambassador keeps it in the family.
I’m going to stick with my original conclusion: a normally-aspirated Buick 3800 Series II or III.
Over 200 HP, durable as a hatchet, remarkably smooth and quiet for a V6, able to mate with a bunch of longitudinal manuals or automatics. And there are literally millions of them out there to be had cheaply.
The late fuel-injected Chrysler Jeep version of the AMC 4.0L six would be another obvious choice.
If I win the lottery I have grand plans to swap this engine into all models of AMCs…
If I win the lottery, I’m going to develop a DOHC 24-valve head for that block.
EDIT: Nah, 18-valve head. I think two intakes and one larger exhaust would suit the torque curve you’d want from that engine. Also, extra weirdness.
You might already be aware of this, but if that AMC comes with the 258cid straight-six and you happen to have a 4.0 laying around, you’ve got pretty much everything you need to turn it into a 4.5-litre stroker motor (and there are options for upping the displacement from there). More info here and a billion other places.
Stick one of those in a Pacer and surprise a few folks, particularly when popping the hood…
I didn’t know that, thanks.
No AMCs yet, but my dad’s swather has the AMC 258cid.
Hmm… Now that’s an idea…
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/z/SuYAAOSwLVZVrFNX/$_35.JPG
(Not my pictures, but my dad’s is very similar)
MB SL R129 hasn’t been mentioned.
thanks for giving u r valuable information