Hooniverse Asks: What matters more to you; range or charging time?

Jeff Glucker

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Some say, they care most about the range of an electric vehicle. For others, it’s all about how quickly they can recapture the juice and get back on the road. Tesla is pushing a greater range figure out there for each iteration of its vehicles, while legacy automakers are coming online with some quick charging machines.

Charging companies, like Electrify America, are bringing a great number of stations to all corners of this country. By July of this year, it will have built 484 DC Fast Charging sites. That’s more than 2,000 outlets and those are even upgradeable to 350 kW charging down the road. No vehicle on sale can handle that just yet, but the Porsche Taycan is coming and it can gobble up the electrons at that speed.

On a now note, I’m about to head out in an Audi E-Tron. It’s capable of charging at 150-kW speeds, which is quite fast. That helps offset the range of the vehicle, which is only 204 miles per the EPA. So I’m curious what the trade off point is for potential EV buyers.

Do you care more about range, or how quickly you can charge up your vehicle?

 

About

Jeff Glucker

Jeff Glucker

Jeff Glucker is the co-founder and Executive Editor of Hooniverse.com. He’s often seen getting passed as he hustles a 1991 Mitsubishi Montero up the 405 Freeway. IG: @HooniverseJeff

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28 responses to “Hooniverse Asks: What matters more to you; range or charging time?”

  1. P161911 Avatar
    P161911

    Charge time, at least to be practical as anything more than a commuter car. The best solution is still the Plug in Hybrid, ideally with a 50-80 mile range as a EV. That covers 95% of the commuting situations on EV and leaves the gas engine to eliminate range anxiety and allow you to take long trips. My wife has a Volt and it is our “family car”. We have put over 60k miles on it and averaged over 90mpg in that time. That includes two trips from the Atlanta area to central Florida and another to the South Carolina coast. Plus at least a couple of days a week of driving over 100 miles a day.

    Reply
  2. Scoutdude Avatar
    Scoutdude

    One of the things that no one seems to mention when they talk about charge time at the public fast chargers is the cost. Back in January I picked up a C-Max Energi for the wife and while we were waiting for the dealer to supply the convenience cord I did look into the public charging stations. The Level 2, with an annual membership would cost 4x what I pay for electricity at home. That means that it will cost ~2x as much as per mile as burning $3.50 gal gas, instead of half the cost of doing it at home. So yeah I’m all about the range because I’m not plugging in away from home. It will be about the same cost to pull out the old 18-19mpg SUV for a road trip vs paying for an EV powered by public pay chargers.

    The local WalMart is one of the stores that is part of the Electrify America program. They have 3 DCFCs 1 with Chademo and CCS, 2 with 2 CCS and a single level 2 unit. So yeah not really supporting the cars that are out there right now and being a local store, not one of the ones close to a highly traveled freeway it looks like they will always be empty when they finally activate them.

    Reply
    1. P161911 Avatar
      P161911

      Yep, public chargers are a rip off. Occasionally you still find a free one, or one that is dirt cheap for the first 1-3 hours. The last one that I used was at Disney World, just so that I could get a close parking space.

      Reply
  3. Zentropy Avatar
    Zentropy

    Plug-in hybrid FTW.

    Reply
  4. Sjalabais Avatar
    Sjalabais

    Range. Quick chargers are already pretty effective and I can count the days I drive 600+ kms in one day per year on one hand. An EV doing 500 kms or more in one solid go, maybe with an hour of charging during lunch, should really cover most of our family’s needs.

    Didn’t find a poll, so I made one here:
    http://www.strawpoll.me/17990821

    Reply
  5. onrails Avatar
    onrails

    Kind of a double edge sword. If you have more range, you need less charge options and can take your time. With our Volt – if the weather EVER starts pretending it’s actually spring around here and stays warm – I’m entering the never-fill-up time of year. With the 40 mile range, I fill up at home and work and either take the occasional long trip to empty the tank or take the SS. And if we ever go full BEV, for long trips we’ll just rent a car. It’s very minimal but for a long trip I just want to get there! Those hours add up after a while. So based on that, I’ll pick charge time.

    All that being said, there were 2 Teslas (Teslae?) on One Lap this year. A Model S and a Model 3. They did the whole thing and did it quite well, the 3 impressively more so than the S. Waiting for a full download from the teams to show up somewhere to see exactly how they handled the charging but they did it. So range and charge time had to both be pretty decent.

    Reply
  6. Maymar Avatar
    Maymar

    Now that ranges are starting to get up into the 400-500km range (about as much as I’d reasonably expect to drive in a single sitting), charging time is becoming more important. Even then though, the 80% in 30min that most fast charging seems to aim for isn’t any major inconvenience. Although, beyond that, I think the robustness of the charging infrastructure would be my biggest priority, just knowing that I can easily find somewhere to recharge and grab lunch or a break or something (for that admittedly rare occasion where I need to recharge outside of home).

    I’m also curious to see what we get in the way of more affordable EV’s, as cost is also a bigger driver for me.

    Reply
    1. P161911 Avatar
      P161911

      Used EVs (Leaf, Bolt, Volt, 500e, Kia Soul EV, Cadillac Volt, Chevy Spark EV, and other non-Tesla EVs) are a bargain right now, especially if you factor in the gas savings. It isn’t too hard to find a used Leaf with less than 50k miles for under $10k. Used Volts are under $15k. The depreciation from new is approaching German luxury car levels.

      Reply
      1. Maymar Avatar
        Maymar

        That’s actually a fair point. Being a one-car household, I think I’d expect at least 200km range to consider it (which rules out most of the current cheap stuff), but a Volt or C-Max Energi is a pretty feasible alternative. Plus, if we ever did become a 2-car household, it looks like early Soul EVs are a bargain ($10k CDN for a unit with 80k miles), which would be a fine commuter car for my wife (who just wants something that runs).

        Of course, I have 5-10 years left in my current car, so I’m sure there’ll be a good supply of workable alternatives by the time I’m ready for a replacement.

        Reply
  7. crank_case Avatar
    crank_case

    To reiterate what I’ve said loads of times, charge time.

    A Mitsubishi Evo has awful range due to high consumption and a small tank to save weight, but apart from intercontinental trips no-one cares, because refuelling takes minutes. Hoon, empty, fill, repeat.

    A low weight car you can do few laps on a track day, recharge for 10/15 mins, then go again the without heat issues is where it’s at from an enthusiast perspective.

    Reply
    1. P161911 Avatar
      P161911

      Even a relatively short gas range of 250-300 miles isn’t a problem. Maybe I’m just old, but after 3-4 hours in a car I’m ready to get out a stretch my legs for a couple of minutes and I usually have to pee by then too.

      Reply
      1. crank_case Avatar
        crank_case

        Likewise, plus it’s probably the safe limit of concentration before you need a break anyway. I don’t know about the US, but Euro truck drivers are required to take a short break about that sort of stint by law.

        Reply
  8. alex Avatar
    alex

    Neither matters to me. I’m an old man, and will never own a BEV.

    I like burning dead dinosaurs.

    Reply
    1. crank_case Avatar
      crank_case

      I prefer burning plants, Ethanol/Methanols where its at.

      Reply
      1. 0A5599 Avatar
        0A5599

        If you insist on burning plants, please wait an appropriate amount of time before taking the wheel.

        https://www.dailysignal.com/wp-content/uploads/151013_DemsMarijuana_Johnson-1250×650.jpg

        Reply
        1. crank_case Avatar
          crank_case

          whoah, I’m not Elon Musk.

          Reply
  9. Sjalabais Avatar
    Sjalabais

    Range. Quick chargers are already pretty effective and I can count the days I drive 600+ kms in one day per year on one hand. An EV doing 500 kms or more in one solid go, maybe with an hour of charging during lunch, should really cover most of our family’s needs.

    Didn’t find a poll, so I made one here:
    http://www.strawpoll.me/17990821
    20h later: 4:1 in favour of charging time.

    Reply
    1. Zentropy Avatar
      Zentropy

      My old commute was 740 km, 3 days per week, or 150 times per year. That’s 30 hands, and none of them would have gotten to work on time in an EV. Thankfully I relied on a trusty 325e (and was only ever late because I hit a deer).

      Reply
      1. Sjalabais Avatar
        Sjalabais

        Yikes. I know people who commute those distances occasionally…by plane though. Am I right to assume that this is not the common worker’s plight?

        Reply
        1. Zentropy Avatar
          Zentropy

          I’m sure it’s uncommon– I could only do it for a couple of years. Too little sleep and too much coffee!

          Reply
  10. nanoop Avatar
    nanoop

    Neither. My commute and my shopping sprees are too short to demand serious range numbers, and overnight charging on a regular household outlet is sufficient – an iMiev would do (no it wouldn’t, but not for range/charging reasons…).

    When I travel, I tend to bring along a lot of stuff I don’t want to put on the roof or on a trailer (do you know how they calculate ferry rates? Exactly.) Also, BEVs have a tendency to have reduced payload ratings (~30% less than a conventional van), and not very much continuous space (additional frunk is nice, but where do I put the long stuff? See above).

    Reply
  11. 0A5599 Avatar
    0A5599

    If I had a fast enough Charger, it would be ok if I had to top it off a little more frequently.

    https://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/image-106/dsc_6397.jpg

    Reply
    1. Sjalabais Avatar
      Sjalabais

      Got it, the Range doesn’t matter.
      https://wi-images.condecdn.net/image/nEp7YJonnbA/crop/3240/f/rr-velar-first-edition_081.jpg

      Reply
      1. 0A5599 Avatar
        0A5599

        No problem with a super charger.

        Reply
        1. Sjalabais Avatar
          Sjalabais

          Sounds helpful, but you’re just complicating things.

          Reply
    2. Jeff Glucker Avatar
      Jeff Glucker

      I like this

      Reply
    3. Rover 1 Avatar
      Rover 1

      Maybe you just need a longer Cord?

      https://tomstrongman.com/classic-car-archive/ClassicCars/E1%20Cord/Images/E1.jpg

      Reply
  12. Eric Rucker Avatar
    Eric Rucker

    On my daily commute?

    I literally did my commute today on a vehicle with something like 10-16 miles of range depending on how I ride it, and 5.5 hour charging time from empty. I rode the 5.2 miles from my apartment door to my work’s door, shut it off, folded it up, carried it inside, plugged it in, and when I got off work, I rode home.

    Neither range nor charging speed really matters there.

    For a car, though, I want both long range and fast charging, and that’s what a big battery helps with. A decent rule of thumb is, if you’re not limited by the charger, an 80% charge will take about 20-30 minutes. If that 80% charge is on a 78 kWh pack with 324 miles range, that’s a hell of a lot better than it being on a 24 kWh pack with 84 miles range. And, sure, there’s some chemistries and cell constructions more optimized for fast charging, but that often backfires, because now you’re directly trading capacity (and therefore range) for charging speed, and cost remains the same for the pack, so almost nobody actually does that.

    Reply