By Jim Yu
I sold the Phaeton this week. And I soundly defeated the depreciation dragon.
A fellow car enthusiast two towns over contacted me online and asked if my car was for sale. I replied maybe and we met on Sunday for lunch and a test drive. And before you know it, the car was sold. I think we both got a good deal. I bought the car in 2011 with 37,000 miles for $23,000. I sold it with 54,000 miles on it for $22,000. To those of you who have ridden in my car, you will probably agree that it was well taken care of and looked and felt years newer than it actually was.
And despite horror stories, innuendos, and exaggerations about the car’s reliability and exorbitant repair costs, I did the research. I identified the problem model years (just 2004) and the potential weaknesses through research on enthusiast forums like VW Vortex. I was patient and expanded my search nationwide, waiting for the perfect specimen. My car originally belonged to an older, well-to-do gentleman who did not spare any expense with upkeep and repairs. A thin ream of records confirmed the story. And I paid a bit of a premium for a low mileage, pampered example from a dry climate.
Thankfully, the previous owner took the depreciation hit. My base model V8 Phaeton cost over $70,000 new after you take into account gas guzzler tax, sales tax, and registration. Fortunately, I hit the sweet spot– when the luxury car still drove and looked new, but had plateaued in terms of value. Hence, the car lost $1,000 in value in the 14 plus months that I had it.
Granted, there were other costs, but they were by no means prohibitive. Insurance cost the same as my old Acura TSX. It took a lot of premium fuel, but with work a short bus and train ride away, I only filled up the tank twice a month. And we have covered maintenance costs previously– tires, batteries (starter and accessories), and an alignment were routine. The extended warranty covered a window regulator. And my insurance carrier covered an admittedly expensive rear view mirror assembly ($1,200) that was damaged by an errant tumbleweed.
Driving that car was like a dream. The stability at high speeds. The attention to detail. Everything. If you do the research and have a modicum of intestinal fortitude, I highly recommend a slightly used full-size German luxury sedan.
With the extended warranty/service contract expiring in July, the new owner is shopping for a new warranty. VW quoted $9,000. A third-party warranty company will do it for a shade under four grand. I honestly don’t think the warranty is necessary, as my Phaeton is solid, but there is something to be said about peace of mind.
A new chapter in my life begins. For the first time since 1996, I do not own a car. I’m not in a real hurry to find a replacement, but I will need your help. I will provide you with the parameters shortly and I expect nothing but the most oddball suggestions. Currently, I’m interested in an old Honda Insight, a 1990s Olds 98, and a ten year old Jaguar XJ6. Eclectic, no?
*The Phaeton and the Bentley Continental Flying Spur were built alongside each other at Dresden’s Transparent Factory.
Images sources: Copyright 2013 Hooniverse/Jim Yu and rchen
Jeff Glucker
…and a ten year old Jaguar XJR
Fixed it fer ya.
I learned that the XJ6 of that generation was never sold here.
The main reason I sold it was because of the fuel economy issue. I'm looking for an interesting car with six or less cylinders this time.
These have 6 cylinders, no?
<img src="http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Volvo/volvo_V70R_manu-07_03.jpg" width=640 />
5 in line, mounted sideways.
As a former owner, I can assure you that no recent production car is more of a Q ship than a V70R.
My commute mileage could be as bad as 18MPG or as good as 24MPG. Highway cruising was around 28MPG.
I search those (and the associated S60R) on CL from time to time. In addition to not popping up all that often, they hold their value ridiculously well, almost to an excessive degree.
I do love them though… If I could find one in this combination, I'd have some serious thoughts about trading the GTO…
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/2MYtRTC.jpg" width="250"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/IR8K9Gq.jpg" width="250">
My 2000 XJR regularly averages about 20-21 mpg in mostly city driving and me not sparing the rod occasionally. Not great, but hardly terrible. And they are wonderful cars. Similarly to the Phaeton, they are a car with a undeserved stigma for high maintenance costs. If you can do the work yourself, they are seriously no more expensive to maintain than an Acura. A lot of parts have been no more expensive than they would have been for a crazy high volume car like a Taurus or something. And they are damn near bombproof. If you get a 2000+ car to avoid the Nikasil engines and replace the failure prone plastic secondary timing chain tensioners (a $200 and 2 hour job) the engine is a 150K mile no-touch. The transmission is an MB 722.6, which is rated for 740 lb-ft, so the Jag engine doesn't even begin to stress it. The brakes are awesome and cheap to maintain (if you have a non-Brembo car). And you can get a wonderful example for around $10k, or an immaculate or rare (XJR100) one for around $15k.
if you're really set on a 6 cylinder though, the 94-97 XJR is an awesome option too. The supercharged AJ16 4L is widely regarded as on of the best engines Jaguar ever produced. It makes good power, TONS of torque, and is extremely reliable. You could find them with manuals, but they are EXTREMELY rare. On the other hand, they use a GM 4L80E transmission in automatic form that is absolutely bulletproof and has NO issues. There are a few small downsides to the XJR6 as compared to the X308 (98-2003) XJRs, but most are negligible. The front suspension got a big upgrade with the X308 and is much less prone to tramlining. The interior is much more dated looking in the X300, although some people prefer the look. You could get an XJR6 without a sunroof (all X308 XJRs had a sunroof), so they have more headroom for tall people. And they are down about 50 hp and 10 lb-ft of torque as compared to the X308.
*split for length
On the other hand, the X306 XJR is superior in that they almost all came with shorter final drive gearing with an LSD, whereas all X308s are geared tall and all have open diffs (which is my main complaint with the car). So they are awesome cars, and I'd heavily recommend one over a regular XJ6, which had many problems with it's MUCH weaker transmission.
Wait, there's a GM transmission in a Ford-owned Jaguar?
Mind blown.
I discovered recently that the 6 speed auto in my '10 Saturn Outlook was jointly developed with Ford. I was quite disappointed.
GM is known for bullet proof auto trans and the other family vehicles I've had ('88 Caravan and '99 Odyssey) had weak transmissions. I figured with the Outlook at least I wouldn't have to worry about the tranny.
Guess what one of the common problem areas is?
Jaguar has DEEP ties to GM, and surprisingly deep ties to MB. That's why there are "Daimler" model XJs around, why for the last 40 years any RWD Jag was running an originally GM sourced modifed Dana 44 differential carrier, and why almost every Jag until 2004 was on the old Chevy 5×4.75" bolt pattern. These ties are generally a good thing though. Seems like the only Jags that never have automatic transmission issues are the one running a GM or MB trans.
Nothing about the Dana 44 was "GM sourced" Jag started using the Dana 44 well before it graced the front of 4wds and rear of Corvettes for short periods.
Daimler in the UK started as a licensee of Daimler which then came to own the rights to the Daimler name globally. That right continued on through BSA's ownership of the the brand, Jaguar's takeover after WWII, the consolidation of the British motor industry, Ford's tenure and even today, under Tata.
Daimler AG use the Daimler name, which they do not own, by permission. The fact that they don't own the name is the reason why their primary vehicle line is Mercedes. This license agreement has been the only connection between the firms since 1910.
In the UK and other "Empire Markets", Jaguar have continued to use the Daimler badge for high-spec Jaguars. The same cars have been sold in the US, typically badged as Vanden Plas. If you'll check a Vanden Plas badged Jaguar in the US, you'll find it has Daimler's fluted grille (albeit not so badged).
So in 17000 miles on a car that had 37000 a bunch of things were replaced (including maintenance) and that's reliable? Interesting. I would like to see it with 200K and all that's required is basic maintenance. THAT would be reliable.
I think it's reasonable that a 7 year old car would need a new set of tires and batteries for the first time, no?
What about a Phaeton W12?
You say you are not in a hurry, but remember, the first Second Saturday of the year is less than a month away. I have a new car to show, will you? If not, will you need a ride?
I need less cylinders, not more!
Given that it's coming up soon, it will likely be my wife's Honda Civic DX. Exciting!
What are you bringing?
dwegmull's ride definitely fits in the "less cylinders" category. 🙂
You need to convince Jim to buy a Citroen.
I traded My Tesla Roadster for a Tesla Model S. So no change in cylinder numbers.
I'm dying to drive one of those, how do you like it? All I hear are good things
I've had it for almost two weeks now. So far so good!
I have the standard model (with the 85 KWH battery), so it is not as quick as the Roadster was (the Model S Performance is almost as quick as the Roadster), but it is very comfortable (air suspension). It effortlessly gets up to highway speed.
It is physically quite large (longer and wider than a Volvo V70R), so it was quite a contrast after the Roadster!
It is very roomy inside, the only downside being limited headroom for the rear passengers. Cars equipped with the panoramic roof are a bit better (mine has a metal roof). Thanks to the car's width, the back seat accommodates three adults in relative comfort.
The trunk is huge and then there is a covered well at the very back of it that is nice for holding grocery bags. If that's not enough, the back seats fold down (split 1+2). If that's not enough, there is the front trunk (a.k.a. the frunk) which is bigger than the trunk of some cars.
And, of course, the 17" touch screen is the ultimate toy! I keep the rear view camera on the top half (it works at any speed unlike a lot of other cars) and Google Maps with traffic on the lower half. Having Internet streaming radios is nice too…
I'm seeing tons on the road down here in Southern California, and it's an eye catching car each time. The stance is perfect.
I need to talk my way into some seat time with one… off to email Tesla.
I would really enjoy seeing your take on the Model S. I've also seen/heard a lot of good things, and I really like the way they look, but there's something about a fellow Hoon's perspective…
I'm seeing two or three a day near Seattle. They are all over the place.
I've seen a lot of those on the road already, but I am really looking forward to getting a closer look at one. A friend of mine, who will likely be coming to Second Saturday as well, works for Tesla. It seems like a really good company.
BRING ALL THE MODEL S'S TO SS!!!!!!1!!!1!!!!!!!
I'll ask my friend if we can "borrow" one… or a few…
Moar Cylinders == Always Better. End of discussion. 😉
(EDIT: I'm kidding, of course. I'm looking forward to seeing dwegmull's Model S next month.)
For a 1990s Olds, get an Aurora!
I still say a STS-V would make a nice Phaeton replacement.
<img src="http://img4.catalog.photos.msn.com/Image.aspx?so=4&uuid=fb3d5938-8730-4980-93a5-315c128f4825&w=576&h=324">
May I suggest a 1996 Olds 88 LSS?
Supercharged 3.8L V6 has plenty of go. And the LSS was the most 'sporty' of Oldsmobiles in 1996. Also, 1996 was the last year that the traditional rocket logo appeared on the cars. The LSS also got the better Aurora seats.
It's a rare bird, but worth hunting.
My favorite part of the 98 are the partially obscured rear wheels.
I understand. I actually learned to drive in a 98, so it has a soft spot for me. My 1989 Sable had partially obscured rear wheels as well. Made for a .29 cD pretty damn amazing for a 80s car.
They kept the trait until the 1995
debacleredesign.<img src="http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/544/408/images/2013/3/9/341/492/30357256929.341492810.IM1.04.565x421_A.562×421.jpg" width="550">
The best thing about those Sables is all the glass.
You like wrap-around glass? Other than the Probe, this ride was surprisingly one of my favorites of my high school years:
<img src="http://www.cstatic-images.com/supersized/DMI/151863/909543/03.jpg">
I still kinda dig them – and love the red interior on this one. The price is asinine, but I would totally rock this car – clean up the exterior a bit by removing some of the excess trim, tint the windows and go with some slightly larger wheels. Assuming it's the 3.1 V6 that's supposed to be the reliable one, right? I can't even keep my Ford engines straight…
The wrap around glass is nice both because of the floating effect it gives the roof, and because the visibility out of that car is incredible. I miss it now that my Matrix and its giant C-pillar is home again.
The skirted wheel wells do look good on that car.
When they came with two-tone paint, the 98s looked fantastic. I saw one on Tuesday on Woodside Road in excellent condition, and I actually noted to myself how good the car looked.
Yeah, I saw a pristine one at a cemetery in Hayward this week and I was like Wow.
How about a Saab? Seems only logical to me.
After that Viggen test drive, not so much.
Ah, I was thinking about a 900 Turbo.
<img src="http://flipacars.com/pics/SAAB/saab-900-01.jpg" width=550>
Or just a plan old Seinfeld Special 900.
My wife sometimes gets on my case about Dale the S90 that has moved like 2 miles in the last month, but my insurance went-up $0.48 per year and now I have agreed value antique coverage for the car I love. Isn't it ironic that the trip for the emissions test will do more damage to the environment than all the warm months combined. Clearly I have to get a pre-OBDII car, one already tested and registered in IL. That or something '67 or older.
It's really a shame Honda's hybrid system is quite mediocre (and not suited to a plug-in conversion due to the engine always spinning when the vehicle is moving and in gear), because in my case, a first-gen Insight would be a great match otherwise.
Then again, Honda's hybrid system does allow for a more Hoon-worthy manual transmission.
But, the three main reasons (other than edge cases like zero emissions modes to get through a city) for hybridization without plugging in are regenerative braking (which Honda's system does), engine downsizing (use time when you're not using much power to charge the battery (bonus, you get to reduce pumping losses (and therefore improve overall efficiency) when charging, then use battery to supplement the engine in bursts of acceleration), and supporting a power split transmission (which Honda didn't use).
Power split transmissions can be highly efficient (although they tend to lose efficiency as vehicle speed increases, but there's ways around that), and have no friction elements (no clutches, no torque converter, no belt), no shifting mechanisms, nothing to really wear out. Downside is, because they're a form of CVT, well, it drives like a CVT (but I've not driven a Prius, so I can't say exactly how Toyota's tuned theirs, though). From an engineering perspective, it's an impressive, efficient, and durable transmission. From a hoon's perspective, it's a CVT.
"…an old Honda Insight, a 1990s Olds 98, and a ten year old Jaguar XJ6. Eclectic, no?"
It's a start.
Yo, how 'bout rollin' fat in a VIP DTS on 22s, yo?
<img src="http://images.craigslist.org/3F33J23la5G75K75H3d3b162bd8a214891e0d.jpg">
<a href="http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3673276139.html” target=”_blank”>http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3673276139.html
You can always do that to a 98:
<img src="http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/322/641/25802820006_medium.jpg">
Two things that stand out to me. You paid $23,000 for a used Passat, and someone else paid $70k + for a new Passat.
(Disclaimer: I hate all VW cars made after 1966.)
How about a Roadmaster?
<img src="http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2008/08/18/17/13/1996_buick_roadmaster-pic-25285.jpeg">
air strut replacement is $1,000.00
VW or Buick ?
longroof
Air suspension has always been "Iffy"
First time I saw was a 1959 Cadillac
Mistake that keeps being repeated.
Still bummed I didn't get a ride in it when you had it, Jim. I think it would have been a nice express ride back out to SFO instead of the BART…
Sorry, dude, but I was not feeling like parking it all day at Haight-Ashbury.
Oh, I'm joking – I wouldn't expect anyone to do that! There are other Phaetons in the world…
Less cylinders you say? DKW 3=6. http://zumann.com/photos/dkw-sonderklasse-3=6/08/
this is awesome, really cool to see someone keep track of what its like to own one
All of my wacky suggestions for a new vehicle are sort of dependent on being in Canada or another country with relatively lenient import laws. For example, this has no cylinders at all!
<img src="http://vehiclemy.com/img/Mazda-Cosmo1.jpg" width="500">
And I imagine this is pretty good on gas.
<img src="http://www.honda-beat.info/history/photos/Honda-Beat-pic.jpg">
I would love a Beat or Capuccino.
I admit to looking for a better paying job mostly so I can afford one.
Damn you 25 year ban! I've wanted a Cosmo forever. Such a beautiful car, and 3-rotors are monsters.
Join usssssssss.
But actually, isn't it only a couple years before they're 25 years old?
This is a good (and wacky) alternative to a Beat
<img src="http://static.neatorama.com/images/uploads/2007/AZ_1_09.JPG" width="640">
I'm curious how the $2 a day figure came about. $1000 depreciation plus what? Everything else or just repairs or what?
I ask because my '93 Escort cost me, according to me aCar Android app, $3 / day ($0.130/mile) and that's averaging nearly 32 MPG over 11 years. That includes the full purchase price (but not loan interest), all gas, maintenance, repairs, etc. Everything but interest on the loan, tags and insurance. I gave it away, so I got nothing back when I was done.
Even my '05 Mazda3, over the past 7 years and at nearly 29 MPG cost me over $12 a day ($0.269/mile) and my '99 Odyssey, at almost 20 MPG was almost $10 a day ($0.255/mile) over about 9 years. I don't want to mention what my Outlook has cost me, it hurts.
$2 a day must not include fuel at least, right?
Just the $1,000 drop. Does not include fuel, insurance, registration, parking, maintenance, repairs.
Still impressive. Just the depreciation cost of my Escort was about $1.50 a day, about $6 for the Mazda (not sold, so I still have some value retained but not captured) and $5 for the Odyssey.
Excuse me. You put 11 years of '93 Escort cost data into aCar, an app that's only been around for 4-ish years?
I've been using PDAs for ~ 10 years and tracked stuff in Excel before that. I had the data in an app called Automobile from Linkesoft that I used on Palm OS starting back around 2002, then Windows Mobile, then back on Palm OS and then on Android. I imported my Excel data for the Escort into Automobile and then brought the data along at every upgrade, even after I got rid of it in '06. I switched to aCar a couple months ago and it took a bit of data manipulation, but I was able to import the data into aCar fairly easily via *.csv.
I resisted pulling my excel data from my older cars into aCar.
Yeah, I'm an anal attentive data nerd.
I had assumed you used something to record the Escort's data in more-or-less real time. My shock was that you bothered to migrate it to another device and format long after the car was out of your life.
At least you have the data at your fingertips in the event someone ever asks you to compare depreciation rates again.
I know this goes against everything you've set forth in your requirements, but I can't not put this out there. One with at least a custom exhaust challenged me on the freeway yesterday. That sound… That glorious sound…
<img src="http://images.craigslist.org/3Ee3L73o25Ga5H95J8d3e97a9ec5ac8ab12c5.jpg" width="500">
<a href="http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/3681735139.html” target=”_blank”>http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/3681735139.html
That is such a sick ride. New BMWs pale in design compared to these. I love the wheels and the classy and clean body lines. Yum.
Honestly, Jim, anything with a Willock swivel frame will be fine. It doesn't have to be fancy.
<img src="http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/738/scottwelcher54willock.jpg" width="500">
I didn't know such a thing ever existed. It's… beautiful.
You do realize that the first of these are almost beating that silly 25 year import ban, right?
<img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7147/6735897581_10723f0139_z.jpg" width="600">
DS/CX/SM are options too. Or a nice 505.
Some were imported by CX Auto, weren't they? So there might be some legal examples running around anyway.
There are at least 3 near me.
Here is one for sale in Arizona:
http://tucson.craigslist.org/cto/3643440913.html
Maybe I should've realized this was a possibility. Still, I doubt there are many to choose between and the price isn't exactly sharp. But then again, 1989(/1990 realistically) isn't 25 years ago just yet.
WHAT!? The Phaeton is sold?
One of my favorite encounters with Jim's car was when he entered it the Concours d'Lemons last August. A lot of people had a "WTF, this is not a lemon" reaction. But no one had an argument against the fact that it was a seventy thousand dollar Volkswagen.
When it was time to line up on the lawn, we had to open the door to talk to the event staffperson. Why? Because the window didn't work. His response was something along the lines of, "how appropriate."
That window has been rectified. Bad regulator!
Is the new owner aware of its concours history?
Volt
<img src="http://www.pncactivities.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/2011-chevy-volt-black.jpg">
Jim you might not have seen this earlier, Duke found it:
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2013/03/04/hem…
<img src="http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2013/02/1972BuickElectra225_02_700.jpg" width="650">
It's $22K, amazing, and in June I can drive it half-way for you FL to IL. Also perfect time to buy is coming-up, when even you are Irish for the day!
I luuuuuuuv that car. I'd just need a huge-ass garage to park it in, and a supply of Valium, so I could stop worrying about people running into it.
Piloting it would be your valium. There were some thing that might be niggles for Jim though coming from the VW Bentley like the trunk was funny in my dad's. The filler for the gasoline was behind the rear plate, so then there was a pipe going down into the trunk, just making it awkward to put stuff in the easy to reach part. But don't put anything too big in cause the spare was only a bit past center in the trunk. Huge trunk otherwise.
heck you could park that half way… FL to IL
I had 2 examples of cars not costing me much/if any cost during my tenure
. I bought a 1997 Ford Ranger 2.3L 5speed for $2500 used in 2001. I did replace the steel wheels with factory Ford specific alloys (eBay find), pop up cleats on the bed and a DIY roll on bedliner. I sold it 2 years later for $2500 dollars. (The new owner owner received a well cared for reliable truck and I did not lose money. Allthough in hindsight I should have kept that truck)
I also bought a 1992 Saab 9000CD in 1999 for $2300 (seriously Saabs are good cars but damn they do depreciate quickly). I sold it 1 year later for $2000 with bald tires, a broken headlamp assembly to a Saab afficionato . (again, I should have kept it…but I do get bored easily)
Up until this:
<img src="http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6281/kylki.jpg" width="700">
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/TxrBa.jpg" width="700">
the Mazda pretty much survived on regular oil changes and fuel in the tank. I got 65k kms out of a 1500 car, so it did serve its purpose for a while.
In '88 I bought a Fiat Spyder for $250, got laid off of work one week later, so I sold it for $500 several weeks later. In '08 I bought a Civic 3-door for $1,800, selling it three years later for $2,300. It was burning motor oil by then, which I mentioned to the buyer.
You've beaten the Dow and Nasdaq!
Thanks, Maxichamp. The Civic was a '95, no options, weighing nothing. I was not eager to sell – that baby got in excess of 50 mpg when driven tenderly in the travel (not passing or merging) highway lane.
I know this if off topic but I’m looking into starting my
own blog and was wondering what all is required to get set up?
I’m assuming having a blog like yours would cost a pretty penny?
I’m not very internet smart so I’m not 100% certain. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
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Hello, i think that i saw you visited my web site so i came to “return the favor”.I
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Yes! Finally something about clip art free christmas tree.